For those that don't know what happened -- Respiratory Virus in Ball Pythons

I should add that this was all on the BOI as it happened, in a thread about 40-some pages long, should anyone care to read and get more details. However, I ask that no one reply to it or bring it to the top. It is a very painful memory, especially the way I was attacked and degraded by a few individuals, and I do not want anyone confusing that experience with the collection I am starting now.

There were 3 others that came forward as having purchased from Damian Wyatt the same time as me, and also ending up with infected animals. One was Dr. Jason Brodnik, a veterinarian in Colorado (the same Jason that was the first response quoted above). The other 2 were private small-time keepers in the New England area that subsequently also lost everything. God knows who else purchased virus-laden animals from Wyatt without knowing it and where those animals have gone in the last 3 years.

For those interested in the symptoms of this virus, this is what I experienced. WARNING: Extremely Graphic:

Generally, the first sign is typical of any RI. Clear bubbling mucous, wheezing, drooling, lack of appetite. Then the mucous turns bright green, almost like the fluid inside a glowstick that has burned out, and intensifies, often showing smears all over the sides of the tub and the substrate. The wheezing gets worse, and the infection does not respond to ANY antibiotics whatsoever, nor any antivirals, even Interferon. Raising the heat does nothing. Then blood starts appearing within the mucous, and the snake's tissues swell around the upper body. The wheezing gets worse, and the snake begins to forcefully expel air/fluid from its lungs (almost like a cough, but snakes can't cough). The death usually comes at night when you are asleep, although I unfortunately had to witness two dying in front of me one evening. You go to check them in the morning, and you find them bloated, cloudy looking as if in shed, upside down and twisted into horrific shapes due to due to severe convulsions and the snake fighting to breathe, covered in blood that was expelled from the lungs, mouth, and nostrils. It is an excrutiating death for these animals to go through, and an image I will never get out of my head.

The common method of transmission for paramyxoviruses is airborne, and that is what Dr. Jacobsen concluded for the virus that infected my collection. Droplets are expelled into the air from the lungs. Transmission also occurs through shared water sources, direct contact with and contamination of feces, urates, blood, etc. The problem with this virus is that it affects each snake differently. Some show symptoms for 2-3 months before dying. Some show only vague symptoms for maybe 24 hours at most before winding up dead the next day. It also does not follow any predictable pattern. In my case, it bounced all over the place and affected different snakes in different racks in different rooms.

Necropsy results and tissue samples will yield these common factors:

Severe hemorrhaging of the lungs. Exudate present in the respiratory tract, nasal passages, etc. Secondary infection of pseudomonas spp. Liver necrosis. PMV titre may or may not yield a positive result; individual animals develop antibodies at different rates based on individual immune system, time since contraction/transmission, length of active viral infection, etc.

This is what I want people to learn from this: Do your research before purchasing from someone. Ask them to explain their quarantine procedures and if possible, see pictures. Look for a past history of problem-free transactions and happy customers. Ask for references. Make sure you have a full quarantine set up in a another location separate from the one your main collection is at (a different room or different floor is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, this virus and other viruses are AIRBORNE), and keep new acquisitions in quarantine for a MINIMUM of 30 days, preferably 60-90. Mine is now 30 days for snakes from trusted known sources, 60-90 for snakes from anyone else. All snakes must be symptom free and have eaten at least 3 consecutive meals before moving out of quarantine into my home. If one of your snakes develops an RI or any other strange symptoms, immediately separate it from your collection and shut down all selling/buying until the symptoms are resolved and you are sure it is not viral or contagious. Anyone that flips/brokers animals needs to have an extensive quarantine set up in a separate location, and all animals should be documented as to where they came from, who produced them, etc. If a flipper/broker does not practice this kind of responsibility, BOYCOTT them. A revolving door of animals is ASKING for disease spread. Same with unethical breeders/sellers.

I learned all of this the hard way. The collection I built over years with my hard-earned money was destroyed within months because I thought a separate rack across a large room from my collection and another in a separate room was sufficient quarantine. It was destroyed because I trusted an importer/breeder with unethical operating procedures and ignored a few comments that should have been red flags. Don't let the same thing happen to yours. Protect yourself. Protect your animals. They depend on YOU to keep them safe, healthy, and cared for.

Wow....I had read some about this about close to 2 years ago, but I guess I never read all the details. As a matter of fact, I do remember not being able to read all of it in the BOI. Part because there was too much "off topic garbage" to cipher through, but even moreso because I couldn't imagine how painful it would be for me, if I were in your shoes.

I admire and applaud you for the way you handled it, and especially for taking even an extra step and trying to educate others. I'm sorry for what happened to you, but glad to see that you're continuing to heal and let yourself enjoy this great hobby again. Best of luck to you!

Why did Jen get banned?

Jen was banned for what was essentially a distinct lack of common sense...
After receiving an infraction from a moderator for use of a deragatory term and arguing about it, she proceeded to put it in her user title (so it appeared in every post she made). Aside from it being unacceptable on its own grounds, I considered it to be antagonistic toward that moderator.


Hopefully, with the question asked, and answered, the matter will not continue to be a distraction in this thread. If anybody feels the need to comment further, please do it in the appropriate forum (Fauna Feedback Forum)

I have addressed this with Harald directly. I'm back now.

Glad to see your back. I was hoping it was temporary.

Jen welcome back I remembered when this happened to you. I was wondering the other day how you were doing. Glad to see you are back!

wow, i hope you have better luck this time around. do they keep you posted on the outcome of the new virus?

Unfortunately all research on it stopped shortly after I euthanized my collection due to lack of funds. I could not afford to keep plugging money into it after everything I already lost, and despite a bunch of promises, no one else in the hobby donated either. So basically if it hits someone else, there's still no idea what it is, how long it incubates, whether an animal can be an asymptomatic carrier and if so for how long, how long it can live on an inanimate surface, what disinfectants can kill it, or how it can be treated in the animal. Nothing.

has this been seen in any other collections? and the person you boughth the original carrier from have they lost all there stock or are they not admitting to any of it. Thanks for sharing this info and sorry to here of your loss i to would be devestated if i lost my fav. girl.