Inquiry: East Tennessee Reptile Rescue

Are you Larry Williams, the Assistant Director of the "rescue"? If not, who is Larry Williams?

I, like the others here, (not those enlisted by Sonnie from her other forums she asked to post here on her behalf) believe that while Sonnie's heart and intentions may be in the best place, she is just not going about it the proper way.

I don't believe you can legally use someone else's 501c3 (to wit, Pattye Elliot, East Tennessee Bloodhound Rescue) as an "umbrella" to claim yourself a non-profit rescue. As far as that goes, I'm also not sure Pattye is legally able to provide 501 status to Sonnie under her own organization name (if she is indeed properly licensed and exempt)

As Mr. Dove stated, the problem lies in the route she is taking. The problem also lies in the fact that:

1) she requires a $25.00 "adoption application fee". (for the animals best interests?)
2) cannot file any paper work until "donations" pay for it, has not incorporated nor has she filed for a Tax ID. The rest of us business people have to abide by the laws; why should she be an exception?
3) has misrepresented her Spotted/Childrens python in her attempts to get rid of the snake since May, on various forums/ads.
4) has actively solicited / sought out unwanted reptiles
5) has posted she will pay small amounts for unwanted reptiles, but knows the value of animals, etc ....

I don't think anyone who participates regularly in this forum or the ones she frequents would wish Sonnie to fail. However, we all are smart enough to realize even the best do-gooders and well-intentioned can become overwhelmed, underfinanced and time constrained. When that happens, the animals suffer and suffer greatly.

I know Sonnie is a young single parent with a very young child, says she goes to school, works and has also had some health issues. She carries quite a load already for someone her age and I commend her strength and resolve. That said, I would hate to see her take on more than she can handle despite her passion for herps and her willingness to help. I've seen it happen more than I care to.

I am Larry Williams, my friends call me Max, I am not fully aware of the legalities except the following, I was simply asked to assist the rescue because I have a passion for and expereance with large breed snakes, and some other 'difficult' herps that many rescues may deal with. I am among other things going into the masters program at ut and eco and evolutionary biology is one of my areas of study. I can confirm that I was told by sonnie that she's trying to do the legal thing and do the right paperwork, she gave me adoption and surrender forms and things like that.... if there are problems I'm sure she will be happy to take care of them my biggest reason for posting was to say that... my intrest, as someone not in the buisness side, is just the animals. she is trying to do a good thing, it may need some work but it is certinally no scam. I say all this for both her integrity and my own as I would NEVER support something that was inherently dishonest. I hope all turns out for the best.

Well Larry that could have all been cleared up easily if the accusers stopped to think before jumping to conclusions and tried to even contact Sonnie before ravaging your and Sonnie's reputation - but some people think they alone have the right to be judge and jury and executioner in a public forum. Not to mention the sarcastic sharks who come to the frenzy and only have an IQ high enough to make sarcastic remarks about Tennesseans!

Originally Posted by Vitalisse

They had several ads on Craigslist. Apparently they were being flagged so much that they started putting stuff like "Those who flag are sad" in their titles. I wish I had taken a screen shot.

I don't see the local legitimate dog and cat rescues advertising "we will take unwanted animals" everywhere. The local small animal rescues don't even post ads like that.

I'm not saying that anyone involved in this rescue is a bad person or mistreats their animals. I just take issue with someone calling themself a rescue when they are nothing more than a reseller who begs for free animals.

Just out of curiosity who do you use as an exotics vet?

I would like to see these questions answered.

Who is the veterinarian for the rescue? If you've ever watched the Nick/Mike vids, they refuse to say names...

Why is a 'legitimate' rescue hitting craigslist so hard that they are getting flagged? Why the begging?

as I said, I can't speek for any legalities or that sort of thing but let me awnser those questions from my end... MY vet, the only vet in knoxville I use and the vet any of my animals or those intrusted to me would see is Dr. Hilla, an incredible reptile vet, but to my knowladge he isn't affiliated with us, but all my animals or animals I foster see him and his reputation is outstanding. second to my knowladge sonnie hitting 'so hard' was one post, if anything the 'begging' can be attributed to zeal for a new project. if there is something wrong I am sure sonnie will fix it, or I won't be involved, but I would hope the tennor of such a coversation would be about helping up and comming organizations with good intentions, not sensless accuzations. I know I'm very new to forming a herp society, sonnie is new to the official rescue thing, but what a community should do is support our shared passion. I'd be thrilled with helpful advice on any topic. happy herping.

Hi Mr. Meyrow,
To be honest, though I believe their heart is in the right place, I don't believe they have thought this through to the point of vet care, large enclosures for the unadoptable long term residence (oh no not another Green Iguana missing it's tail and toes), quarantine in seperate buildings to protect heathy animals, etc.

As any business, As any reptile owner knows there are costs. Me and Max are trying to make this work. Everything on the website, was done by the lady who is guiding us. The application fee, would be part of the animals adoption, but if you don't have a fee according to Miss Elliot, Everyone and there grandma, would be filling out applications. IT helps filter out the people who aren't really serious about the animal. She works for the state threw her 501, and she informed me that you have to be under someone threw 501. I don't mind changing my web site and stating that we are trying to get the money to get that form, and go threw the proper channels, because I WANT to be that big. We are starting out slow. That snake is FREAKING rescue for the last time. I've been trying to rehome it, forever now. That snake is worth way more, than what its posted for in any of the ad's i had listed it in. And not only that, the snake wouldn't just go to the first buyer who inquired, because , if that was the case, I would have had it gone already. And some of those posts, were before we had our rescue together. I've had so many ppl, let an animals almost starve, because they want to regain some of there money. Heck, I paid 10 dollars for a half dead savannah to save its life! and i have MORE than one witness to that one. Larry at critterbarn, saw and examed the lizard, he knows. I do almost all my business with him. They are wonderful ppl who care abotu there animals also. And saying we take in unwanted reptiles, DOESN't mean anything, bad. I've had multiple ppl let out red ear sliders, snakes, things that AREN"T native, because they were bored, tired, or just didn't carea bout the animal, or didnt want to pay to feed it, and let it go because they didnt think anyone would want it. I understand animals need quarentined. I have 58 acres here in the country. I do have a lot of free time. I am a single mom, My daughter gets the up most attention, and so do my animals. We only started on and trying to get things worked up. I asked for people who were wanting to foster for us, to email me. As they would go threw a process to make sure they could foster the animals. But, everyone being smart a's and all this and that, because they think im some sort of scam, and wanting to make money? pffft. I'm not begging for free animals. I'm trying to help the ones who die, when the kids loose interest, the ones that get let out, and then cause our goverment officals to crack down more on us herpers!!! I've had about 4 people JUST recently tell me that they killed a snake, because it was in there yard, omfg, people. I'm willing to spend my gas, my money to drive out to where ever, and get a wild snake, to keep it from dying from STUPID ppl who think its "scarey"...And then capture it, and let it go, away from people. I don't take things out of the wild, thats always been a big rule to me. I prefer OVER ANYTHING captive bred. If its not really avaiable, i typically don't buy it. I do have my own personal animals, and i will be breeding some of them. And thats my choice. BUT...I don't have any rescued animals that I'm breeding. Just like in a few days I'll drive to town, which is a 45 min drive, gas is 3.85 a gal, and go get this poor savannah, thats 4 inches long and is 2 years old. I finally convienced its owner to let me take the poor thing, because its gonig to end up dying. And they WOULD NOT listen to me when i kept telling them it needed some UVB, and calicum. So..I haven't seen this lizard in a while, and I don't care what it takes, that lizard will be on the road back to recovery! ....But oh yea...im going to make a profit, off a 30 dollar lizard, when the light to make it better costs more than that. I wouldn't mind giving some of my rescues away for free, because i have. I could have sold that red tail boa, after we got the upper respitory gone, which We did. It go shots from the vet, and now is better. its eating, which it wouldn't do when it was given to me. thats a 275 dollar snake, that is the SWEETEST red tail. But yea. I'm really trying to make a profit. I am angry, and a lil off taken by this post, I admit. BUT..I do understand why I'm being questioned. Yes, I'll see if her daughter can makes changes on our website, because I didn't make it and I'm not really sure how to change honestly, secondly, You do not know me. BUT i really do wish you would have simply emailed me and asked. I get flagged like everyone on CL does. because ppl are stupid, and have nothing better to do. Ya know, because HEY my other friend got flagged because her pet was missing and she was looking for him, OH lets flag her. i mean come on. And any post I made before this actually started has nothing to do with it. I posted on CL a lot. I've paid ppl a few dollars and took a half starved animal and kept it. I got a few that i could show you before and after pics of. But honestly I'll be proving myself for nothing, because i know, what im capable of. and I know what i want to see change. I want our stupid laws here to change, i want to see people care more about the enviroment, care about our lakes, that they keep polluting. i live 3 mins from norris lake. its really sad to see the shape its in. and im thinking do people not know our children, would love to have this lake to play in one day? It's so sad. I can't stand ppl who litter, Oh..someone will pick it up. Yea, and that person should be You.. ugh. Neways..I'm aggervated that this keeps going back and forth. I myself, am trying my best to do the right thing, and do it the right way. I'm going on what I've been told. I hadn't made it offical before because I didn't have the guidence i have now. We are striving to do make a difference. I'm trying my best to make a difference, but when you keep making it harder and trying to ruin my rep. it doesn't help, it just makes matters worse, and why would we want to do that to the animals that already have such a bad name. because of placed fear. people are taught to be afraid, and then do look at the real picture, the behavior, the uniqueness of the animals themselves. NOTHING ..oh im afraid of it...why?..I dont know..ive always been. ..... Most ppl can't even tell you why there afraid of something, that wants to geta way from them, instead of "attack" them. You guys get my point. My heart is in the right place. YOu have to build something from the ground up . It doesn't happen over night, and it doesn't just come out of now where. One, reason we are trying to get our name out there to get fosters, and find people who are just as passinoate, and willing to help. THOSE are the ones that are hard to find. So help, instead of point.

-Sonnie

And i must add, Refering to my "health" problems. Yes, I had a Pulmonary Embolism, about a month ago. i about died, I spent a week in the hospital, and it almost cost me my life, that could have been prevented, if the previous hosptial i had been to had done there job. BUT...after almost dying, and loosing my life, the father of my child walked out, which, honestly was his mistake and his alone. It hasn't effected me in any type of way, because I want to live my life to be happy. And being Happy is something I really want. And Doing things that Make me happy and MAKE me feel good is exactly what I'm changing, And if saving animals, makes that difference, and something happens to me, I will die happy, KNOWING that i made a difference. A PE, could happen to anyone INCLUDING THE PERSON READING THIS... Mine was from having a baby, and complications from a C-section. BUT, that doesn't mean, I don't and won't take care of my animals, and possible rescues. I'm fine, and being monitered, and watched carefully as to the blood clot issue. And All i can do is live life, like the rest of you, and I'm not going to live it in fear. neways.. I hope this elaborated those in question...

-Sonnie..

I'm not a person who is kind and patient and forgiving of transgressions against anything I consider important. Sonnie showed up on TRR, which I frequent... and she has proven herself to be inexperienced, devoid of knowledge that I'd file under "basic husnabdry and biology" and resistant to the idea of actively seeking new knowledge before problems occur. She is in no way, shape or form qualified to act as a rescue. Good intentions don't fix an animal's health problems or keep it in an appropriate environment long term if it can't be rehomed or save it from the ignorant neglect she inflicts upon them.

Less than a month ago she public explained that she was keeping her blood python in a set of housing with her ball python and that the two apparantly loved one another. It was news to her that this was not an acceptable practice. This is not a person who should have any responsibility for the detailed and sometimes delicate needs of animals that are in suboptimal conditions or health to begin with.

Add to that the laws she has broken- which range from presenting herself falsely as a non-profit to keeping protected species as pets...

And her near constant comments which indicate that her financial situation is not the most stable...

And the way her vet apparantly moved suddenly and none of those within a reasonable distance will work with exotics...

I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to scam anyone. Just a zealous neophyte who is utterly oblivious to the details involved in the undertaking she is proposing. She doesn't know enough to know how much she doesn't know. Not malicious- just plain ignorant.

lol. Well I guess since you can't flame on TRR, you can flame me here, that is fine say what you want. YES i made a husbandry mistake and i fixed it. My vet i usually use did move, and i had to find a new one. And saying my snakes loved each other was a girly silly statement, something you know nothing about since you are a cold type of person. I don't have to prove myself to you, but you were warned on TRR TO stop harrassing me and stated that one of my animals should be put down, that is no love for an animal that played no part into what its parents were. And as with any reptile owner we are all unexperianced to some degree. You learn from your mistakes, and I HAVE TOOK your advice seamus, and listened to you. But instead of telling me what i was doing wrong, you instead insulted me, and called me names like a 12 year old. that is not mature, that is ignorant yourself. You do not know me in person and do not know what im capable of doing. I am willing to learn, adjust and do anything to better myself. And as far as money goes, you dont know my finical status. But I don't know anyone who is going to shuffle out 4,000 dollars for something that may not work. Yes, i don't have that type of money, but really who does, if you do then thats your business. I dont look for a profit, just as when i breed my animals I won't sell them for what they are worth, i think everyone should have a chance to own something they really want, even though they choose to spend there money on more important things. Your opinions are sometimes good, and sometimes are not. Your opinion says I'm not ready, why don't you let the future decide that. If i can make this happen, I'm going to give it my all. If it doesn't it doesn't But at least I tried. You yourself should help us young ppl who are WILLING to learn, and grow, instead of trying to beat our dreams before they start. neways I'm going to bed, I have things to do tommorrow

-Sonnie