New Mountain Horned Dragon... questions.

We just got a female WC Mountain Horned Dragon. We were at the show in St. Louis and saw them. They were just sitting on the guys shoulders looking cute. This one was show a little aggression, puffing up and was really cute. Started asking about them and the guy at the booth said they are "room tempature" lizards, so no UTH, or hassle with heating. They said, mist them and have stuff for them to climb on and they are incestavores. Sounded easy so we got one. Well... asked about them at the pet store and they said she needs running water.
Currently she's in a Kritter Keeper with mulch type bedding, water dish, wood to climb and a rope to climb. She like to hand on the side of the keeper. She's going into a 29 Tall tank tonight.

What else do we need to know???
She's wild caught and found some little mite thing crawling on me after handling her last night.
What substrate? What does anyone use to treat for mites, etc? What specific foods? Anything else?

Thanks for any help. She was sort of a spur of the moment purchase... but she's cool. Still has an attitude, which we like.

Hello,

Well, I will try to help as much as possible. I do not have any Mountain horned dragons.
I hope you don't have too much trouble with her as wild caught dragons alot of times are so stressed out that they do not make it.
What size of kritter keeper is she in right now?
Oh never mind, you are putting her into a 29 gallon tank tonight, ok that is fine for now. How big is she then?
Do you have a temp gun or a digital probe to measure her temps with? Do you have any UVB lighting for her?
The recommended temps are usually 75-84 or so. I would not exceed 85 as they quickly dehydrate. Their humidity needs to be 70-80% & they need a drip type drinking system kind of like a chameleon needs as they do not drink from standing water. They love to climb so the tank will eventually need to be a tall one more so than a long one. Plenty of limbs & branches with maybe a waterfall or something in there for her.
I would use at least a reptisun 10 for her. They do need to maintain strong bones so they cannot do that without D3 synthesization which happens when exposed to UVB.
She will need supplementation as well. Calcium with D3 several times per week to help keep her bones strong, too.
You can use ground coconut bedding, or soil that is free of perlite or fertilizer. It can get muddy if you keep it too wet so you will have to keep an eye on it. I wouldn't use any type of bark because that doesn't tend to hold humidity very well.
I think that is it. Amber is on this area & hopefully will come along to help more. She breeds them & is doing very well with her stock.

I hope this helps a little bit.

Tracie

Hello,

Ah sorry I meant Angie will be on! I will PM her so she can read through your thread to help out for you.

Tracie

Hi...the first thing you should do is google FroggieB and read her site. She is the foremost expert on MHDs, but recently had to let all her dragons go because of other commitments, she is leaving her site up to help people. She has care sheets on there and a wealth of information. I doubt you will have questions after reading her information but if you do, just post again on here or PM me. I'll be glad to try to help and I know people who have been into MHDs for several years and they are always willing to help.

I'm not sure about the external parasites, (maybe someone else can chime in on that) I think you would treat them the same way any other reptile would be treated for them...I don't know about this but one of the breeders I know that has many different reptiles used to wipe them down with Novalsan - do not get it in their mouth or eyes. You will have to sterilize all the cage accessories or they will continue. I would keep your MHD on papertowels until you have all that under control. After you're good with the bugs you can put her on bed-a-beast, coconut bark, etc. I stopped using those and switched to ceramic tile in their big enclosure and I have plants in soil and an empty pot with dirt where I dump the worms so they can dig them up if they want one. I'm getting a box with organic soil ready to go in with them also.

If there are external bugs there are probably internal parasites. If you can go to a vet for a fecal I think you should do that and get meds for the specific parasites they identify. I give mine a dose of Panacur and MTZ as a precaution every 4-5 months.

I keep mine in about 80% humidity with running water using a water fountain that I completely disinfect with Novalsan at least one time a week. You can use a bubbler in a dish - air pump and airstone for aquariums to keep moving water and increase humidity. You can also use a dripper from the top and let it drip into a dish, this can be simple like a Styrofoam cup with a pin hole in the bottom or you can put ice cubes on the top and let them melt and drip down for an emergency fix. They absolutely have to have running water...they will not drink from standing water.

I use 5.0 UVB on the adults and 10.0 on the babies. I just got a Mega Ray UVB for the adults and they seem to like it and appear to be more active. I keep a regular bulb on them too, just to heat up a basking area for them. They are under-canopy dwellers and usually don't go much over 4 feet off the ground in the wild from what I understand. Taller cages are better....if you use a 29 tall you might have to cover part of the screen top with plastic to help keep the humidity up but it should do fine for now.

I dust with Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall 3-4 x week and herptivite the other days. They eat earthworms, nightcrawlers, mealworms, superworms, crickets, and phoenix worms. I don't dust earthworms, nightcrawlers or phoenix worms. I gutload the crickets, mealworms and superworms. I mist in the morning when the lights come on and that is when I feed, that seems to be when most of them eat. Toss in a couple of dusted crickets and see if there is any interest. If you have trouble getting your MHD to eat let me know, I've fed with supplements and Fluker's Insectivore Rescue powder and baby food to keep a sick one going.

I normally mist in the morning, at lunch, after work and around 8:00 before the lights go out for the babies. I would do that with a new WC also.

The first MHDs I got were WC and I named them Pandora and Marius. The lady at the reptile store where had purchased a bearded dragon and a chameleon told us that these lizards could live in a open mesh cage with something to climb on and be misted a couple of times a day. That is so wrong! When I got them home they seemed thirsty so I ran water in the sink and the poor things buried their heads and gulped. No telling how long they had been without. Marius died the next day. I spent about $400.00 at the vet trying to keep Pandora alive. I scoured the Internet and found a forum for MHDs and started posting. I tried everything and she lived for almost 2 months and then she died. I was so disgusted by the treatment these fine creatures receive being jerked out of the wild and transported thousands of miles, held at the importer, then sent to a distributor and then to pet shops where the people are totally ignorant of how to care for them that I decided to make it my mission to help stop some of the WC trade by starting a captive breeding program.

Good luck with your new MHD....I'm on here all the time if you need any help....just let me know. Angie

Just wanted to let you know I read thru this really quick... I've got to go to work for a few hours then I'll be home. I think I'll try putting her in the sink maybe when I get home... probably a mini soak would be good and have water dripping.
Called a vet yesterday... reptile vet...a fecal is $30. and exam is $40. She hasn't pooped, or ate. Got her Sunday.
Write more later...

Hello,

Great, thanks Angie!!
I hope that your MHD will be ok. Definitely hydration is a huge issue. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

Well... my gf tried doing the water running a bit in the sink thing... not interested. But she did feed her some concoction with a dropper. It's something she's used with other lizards she's had in the past... herp vit., water, little bit of wet cat food and little bit of corn syrup. A reptile vet told her about this a few years back, said it's good for any meat eater-type. The MHD took it just fine. We just knew if she wasn't drinking/eating she sure won't last long.
We are moving her today into the bigger tank.
Since she hasn't been interested in crickets... got some mealworms. I know some say they aren't that great, etc., but at this point we just want her to eat.

Not eating for a while after a relocation is not unusual for a WC MHD. They are stressed and they like to be left alone to stay in one place hanging out....if you cover the sides of the enclosure with some papertowels it will feel more comfortable. If you can post a pic I'll tell you what I think about how it looks compared to others that I've seen. It may be fine and just not eating for a few days because of the stress.

How's the color? Is there a lot of dark and does it have a dark mask around it's eyes?

Cat food is not good for them....I used something similar but I used kiwi flavor gatorade and they love that...and veal baby food is the best because it's much easier on their stomach...I mixed it with Pedialyte to thin it. You also might try dangling an earthworm or nightcrawler in front of it....they will smack their lips and grab it if interested...almost all of them will eat those.

Like I said, not eating for several days after a relocation, even something as simple as a new enclosure, is not unusual. I moved my adults to a big enclosure and it's been 2 months and they are still not happy. I still have to hand feed them....but maybe they just like that... ;-)

Good luck....Angie

We don't have her in the new bigger tank yet, she still in a Kritter Keeper... I know, not the greatest thing. Had to work extra shifts and haven't had the kind of time to do some things.
She is dark, but it's a uniform color... there were others we saw with her that looked almost black, and a couple lighter. No dark mask. She looks really similar in color to many of the pics I've seen on Kingsnake of CBB. Can't find the camera or I'd take a picture.
She has been a little less aggressive, not calm by any means. Feel like that's a good sign.
We'll pick up some baby food tomorrow, and the Pedialyte and hit a bait shop for some worms. Yummy. What kind of amount of food mix, what ratios, etc? Today she got a half dropper full of the mixture I told you about.
What type of dosage of Panacur? Do you need a prescription?
The base of her tail and hip bone area doesn't look thin at all, so that's good. Looks like the humidity is good in her Keeper too, and the temps good based on what you all have told us.
It's really too bad that A. all these seem to be WC and really how many new owners are going to go to the trouble of trying to figure it out, and B. a lot of sellers tell you it's a "room temp" lizard, just needs misting and an open air cage. Such a dis-service to the animals. I'll go look up who we got her from and let you know. We'll probably email them and give them correct care info... wonder if they'll care or pass it on (not the same "easy" pet when you find out the moving water and humidity, which is how they were selling them... an "easy" lizard), oh and that they might not start eating really easily because they are WC.

Hello,

How are things going? I hope she is doing a bit better today.
The amount of food should be approximate to her weight, but do you know her weight? Usually, around 1cc or ml per 50 grams of bodyweight. So, if she weighs 100 grams, you can give 4 cc's or ml's. A half a dropper isn't a whole lot & she probably needs a bit more than that.
Do you have a vet around who could run a quick fecal for you? I hesitate to have you deworm her if she doesn't need it though panacur is relatively safe.
How do her stools look? If you want help on dosing the panacur, let me know & I can dose it for you. No problem but let's make sure she would benefit from it first.
Angie could probably give you more of a detailed description on what to feed.

Tracie