One More Reason to Test for Adenovirus

I apologize up front to everyone that is sick of seeing this going on in a thread that should be about the animals, but these things keep getting thrown out here that are far from the facts and rosy picture someone is determined to paint

Vicki said Word spread quietly and we were contacted directly by people who were interested in offering us animals. Consequently, we had positives in that facility the first week of January to work with. Where do you think those people got the word from?

I responded to their emails when they contacted me because they were positive and concerned what they would do with the babies and finding places for them. I told them first to try and find home for the infected ones (telling the people up front they were positive), some of them I helped with finding homes, private and public ones, where they are also monitored by professionals. The others were told the following through December and you can see the date on this one that went to the person who did contact you and send some to you... those ones you had in your facility the first week in January... from another breeder.

----- Original Message -----
From: cheri
To:
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:57 AM
Subject: Re: cheri

if you can not place the positive ones in homes, Vicki Dachiu has asked about gettting some positive ones that appeared healthy since her and Rob were thinking about housing some to study long term effects, so you might want to talk to her.

And I know they contacted you and send some to you... so much for your comment of me turning my back... gues you are wrong again!

When I replied to your email in November, I said I not think you needed positive ones with my help, you should already have acess to plenty, without my help. Read what I said, I know you understand it You also never said anywhere in email to me the rest of that paragraph that you have now added under your quote about wanting animals from others so no one could claim that any of the testing was done with bias. People think you are bias already, no matter where any positive dragons you test come from and do not trust you to be honest about anything with this. Sorry, that is a fact for BOTH you and me, that is why I would never attempt to personally do any test and told you that. I have always endorsed fund raising to have professionals do them which you have tried real hard to even drive them off, who knows maybe you did succeed in that and the ones that were interested in more studies will never do them now. Personally I think they would be crazy to step into this mess and I know some agree on that point too. That is not a new opinion this year either. It's the animals that lose all the way around without controlled and scientific studies by pros that do not have a personal agenda in this.

For the records, Sandfire Ranch to the best if my knowledge has never had any or sold any adeno positive dragons or had any reported coming from them to owners or other breeders. Neither has Kevin Dunne either before working with them or since. I said it has been discussed often by many people if they inbred dragons knowingly and that is a factor on the breeder's network, if what Josh stated is true and inbreeding trans was done at their direction, it answered that questons. If that is the case (and I do not know it is) yes, the network would be edited, as that is one of the agreements that breeders committ to when they join it and promise not to do. But that has nothing to do with any report of them selling any adeno positive dragons as there never have been any such thing in all the time any data was collected and I have never said that. I could swear you have asked this many times befoere and been told the same things each time.

ok... I've got to the stage now where I am filtering through the posts becasue I am simply not wanting to read anything argumentative. I agree that these arguments should be taken off the thread and into pms but I feel that someone feels the need to keep them on the thread to keep power to the post. I bet there are plenty other just filtering through to the bits that count to them and leaving out the arguments so really .. no one cares. Deal with the problem at hand, answer the questions. Be professional and civil with one another and respect each others opinions without a battle. You seem professional enough to have the info this is a public thread, keep it as such. other wise slag it out in the hell room.

it was mentioned about crix and worms eating faecal matter and so not really being able to keep husbandry 100% effective? feed them in another box/ tub away from the viv or contain the crix in the viv same with the worms. I dont have mine running around eating poo. there are ways around it.

sorry Im going to have to come back to this my beardies what attention lol brb

Originally Posted by CheriS

I apologize up front to everyone that is sick of seeing this going on in a thread that should be about the animals

Apology accepted, Cheri



That aside, I am interested in seeing/hearing the results as you all continue to test, as I hope you will all test repeatly. And when Dachiu has enough data collected from their testing, I hope they feel they can share what they have learned also. Maybe see if this thread can become a sticky, so it will not disappear ?

Originally Posted by mikey

Maybe see if this thread can become a sticky, so it will not disappear ?

How about not. No offense, Jean, but I really don't want to see this thread every time I come in here. I do appreciate all the information that has been discussed. However...this has been very painful for our family, and I'm sure anyone else who's been in this position would say the same thing.

Originally Posted by mikey

Apology accepted, Cheri



That aside, I am interested in seeing/hearing the results as you all continue to test, as I hope you will all test repeatly. And when Dachiu has enough data collected from their testing, I hope they feel they can share what they have learned also. Maybe see if this thread can become a sticky, so it will not disappear ?

This is so childish.

Tere, I'm so sorry that this thread has come to this. I can't imagine your anguish over this whole ordeal, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

This is so childish.

Tere, I'm so sorry that this thread has come to this. I can't imagine your anguish over this whole ordeal, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Well, when the discussions were productive, I didn't have a problem seeing this thread all day, every day. I figured if that's what it took to get the word out, then so be it. But now that it's become little more than a war zone, and is far from productive, those feelings have changed.

My intention with this thread was NOT to create a war, but with hopes of working with others for the benefit of all of our animals.

I am sorry for you both, Tere and Wendy, and for anyone else who has gone thru this. We just need to agree to disagree, until the studies and testing have definate answers and hopefully a solution that everyone will follow. I do hope you put up the progress of your babies with the study info you are doing on your website. And I did try to do my small part and sent money for research. For anything else, maybe the bickering did get people's attention to see there needs to be much more done on adenovirus. For good or bad there will probably be more heated debates on this subject to come. But I did learn different views, that some continued testing is being done, and a ton of great reference material to review and share. Peace Out

tere you didn't create a war zone with this thread, what you did was brave and good and your purpose was to benefit others. there are very good parts to this thread which have been very productive in putting peoples heads together for raising money and other ideas, we can't discount it all. I think if you wanted this thread to get back on track it would be a case of focusing on one goal or even moving to a new thread with that goal in mind to prevent the past being dragged up from this post.

you were getting some where and were on a roll, don't let someone ruin your party tere take it else where how are those pms going? you collecting alot of info and things? are people gathering the info from you?

I apologise for sounding a bit harsh earlier I have a large bout of PMT lmao it's been a while hahha forgot what it was like... quick get the chocolate in!

Originally Posted by trapieter

how are those pms going? you collecting alot of info and things? are people gathering the info from you?

Actually, no. I'm not able to do a whole lot until the hubby gets back. Things have been a bit hectic as of late. And to be honest, I've had very few inquiries for the Adeno research donation instructions. Let's just suffice it to say that it's all been fairly disheartening.

For those of you who have requeted the donation instructions, thank you. We plan on doing our part on payday, and my hope is that several others will do the same. Whether we agree on nothing else, we do all agree that research needs to be done, and there's only one way to get there, folks.

I also think Karen has a good plan, and that is to start keeping records on your own experiences, so that if it ever came down to it, you would have that to offer for research purposes.

Tere, I think that this thread has brought attention to the importance of testing for adenovirus. I think that the exchanges were bound to happen because of the differing views on the virus and how it affects our dragons.

I want to point out that I was not the first to come forward with the problem of adenovirus. I went through the archives on KingSnake, because I was curious as to why there has not been anything done prior to our situation. Yes, I did come forward, but adenovirus is not a new issue for bearded dragons. There was a woman Suzanne, who posted in 2002, but the archives only go back to 2003, so I could not see exactly what she said. Her animals were the ones that Dr. Wentz studied.

I also found posts by Robert Wood in 2003. He had adenovirus wipe out his colony. He shared his experience in hopes of letting people know about this virus and preventing this from happening to others. Sadly, by the time I started purchasing dragons in 2004 I did not hear anything about adenovirus.

Hopefully this time it will stay out in the open and information will be gained and steps will be taken to try and control the spread of adenovirus. I do not think that Tere will be the last breeder to post that they have positive dragons. I think the more people come forward and share their experiences, the more we will learn about this virus and ultimately how to control it within the bearded dragon population. While we may disagree on how to get there, I do think we all have that common goal, and that is a good thing.