One More Reason to Test for Adenovirus

I apologize. I think I probably shouldn't have posted when I did...and to make matters worse, I wasn't very clear.

I think we do all have common interests in mind. We all want answers, even though the questions from each of us are different. I think this thread has been valuable in the respect that we are all asking those questions in attempts to get answers, rather than sitting back and doing nothing. Quite possibly, if the questioning had continued several years ago, when this was last an issue, none of us with positive animals would be sitting where we are today. I'm NOT aiming that at any one person, so please don't take it that way. Because of that, I do feel it's important to continue questioning, researching and trying to get those answers we all desire.

At that same time, though...this is a time when we all have to work together (whether we like it or not) to reach that common goal. The general view of everyone cover their own butt is probably another contributing factor to the reason things are the way they are now. Again, NOT aimed at any one person...just a general observation. When there is excessive fighting in our community, we are going to have a much harder time working together, which obviously means we are going to have a much harder time reaching our common goal.

I would love nothing more than to see this thread be a place where we can all productively contribute, question and research, without feeling like we're just going to get slapped down if we do. In my opinion, the personal attacks are just not productive and only serve to drive us all further apart from each other, when this is when we most need to work together.

Hopefully, that clears things up a bit.

I've been nosey and had a look at those who have a link to there sites on there names in this thread. Why? I just thought it would be interesting to see which breeders have mention to the adenovirus on their site.

neverland dragons..wendy. love it a whole page of her experiences and the importance of testing dragons. very informative.

saladragons... tere. you have some beautiful dragons glad you decided to keep them and I like what you are doiing with your site. it will be very informative to the public and other breeders when complete.


denisebeme.. nice site like your info and care sheets and your caring attitutude towards beardies but nothing about adeno... maybe you can mention it along with the bit on blood lines and it's importance.

dachiu.. great pictures you have lots of beardies! quite a few trans aswell... what is the main difference between them I can't really tell. great range and care sheets too plus the six wk gaurentee.. but nothing I could see directly about adeno accept the bit saying that your available beardies hadn't been tested for it along with the other tests... does that mean yet or wont be? as a buyer that would confuse me. nice variety of beardies though.


My point is I THINK it is important to utilise what we already have. most breeders have sites already, what would it take to put a note on adeno in there somewhere and to state whether yours had been tested or not? ok most wont be keen on that but I think people will be asking now anyway.
but if you have the info there for people to be able to look for the signs even if it is there to put them off other breeders and petstores fine it all helps educate. NO NAMES LOL that would be great. or just put in a link to here or reptile rooms for more info on it.

I shouldn't go on breeders sites lol it's temptation

I don't keep dragons~ so I just skimmed the thread rather than reading it all the way through. I'll read more carefully if I ever decide to purchase a dragon.

It really is comendable that so many of you are responsible enough to test for this virus and stop breeding for it despite the obvious losses if a dragon tests positive.

If the lady in Rancho Cucamonga is still looking for a local reptile vet~ the one in Riverside you heard about is probably Dr. Bart (thats the name he goes by~ he has some weird last name I don't know) he is actually in Corona. Phone number is 951-493-6771

Hey Cheryl,

Thanks for posting the info on the vet in your area, I knew it was a strange name. but could not remember it either, with the phone number now they can find him.

I always thought it was strange you have dragon in your name, but no dragon for sell... until I check you site out last year and realized were the dragon part came from

Originally Posted by trapieter

I've been nosey and had a look at those who have a link to there sites on there names in this thread. Why? I just thought it would be interesting to see which breeders have mention to the adenovirus on their site.

Sundial Reptile does mention adenovirus in their caresheet. Which I think is a great first step. Many people do not buy dragons off the internet, but they do search for care info and do read many different caresheets. Getting the info on as many as possible and getting people to start asking questions, including testing info, would help in my opinion. Like Wendy said she never even heard about this virus while putting her breeding group together. Threads get buried, caresheets don't.

http://www.sundialreptile.com/caresheets.htm

Originally Posted by Cheryl Marchek AKA JM

I don't keep dragons~ so I just skimmed the thread rather than reading it all the way through. I'll read more carefully if I ever decide to purchase a dragon.

It really is comendable that so many of you are responsible enough to test for this virus and stop breeding for it despite the obvious losses if a dragon tests positive.

If the lady in Rancho Cucamonga is still looking for a local reptile vet~ the one in Riverside you heard about is probably Dr. Bart (thats the name he goes by~ he has some weird last name I don't know) he is actually in Corona. Phone number is 951-493-6771

Thank you Cheryl, that is the guy!!!

Originally Posted by trapieter

I've been nosey and had a look at those who have a link to there sites on there names in this thread. Why? I just thought it would be interesting to see which breeders have mention to the adenovirus on their site.

neverland dragons..wendy. love it a whole page of her experiences and the importance of testing dragons. very informative.

saladragons... tere. you have some beautiful dragons glad you decided to keep them and I like what you are doiing with your site. it will be very informative to the public and other breeders when complete.


denisebeme.. nice site like your info and care sheets and your caring attitutude towards beardies but nothing about adeno... maybe you can mention it along with the bit on blood lines and it's importance.

dachiu.. great pictures you have lots of beardies! quite a few trans aswell... what is the main difference between them I can't really tell. great range and care sheets too plus the six wk gaurentee.. but nothing I could see directly about adeno accept the bit saying that your available beardies hadn't been tested for it along with the other tests... does that mean yet or wont be? as a buyer that would confuse me. nice variety of beardies though.


My point is I THINK it is important to utilise what we already have. most breeders have sites already, what would it take to put a note on adeno in there somewhere and to state whether yours had been tested or not? ok most wont be keen on that but I think people will be asking now anyway.
but if you have the info there for people to be able to look for the signs even if it is there to put them off other breeders and petstores fine it all helps educate. NO NAMES LOL that would be great. or just put in a link to here or reptile rooms for more info on it.

I shouldn't go on breeders sites lol it's temptation

Thank you. I have been working on the website to update it with Adeno information, but I don't have it ready to upload yet. I can be a little bit backlogged on the web page, and I didn't want to even start working on it until I had my test results back because I had no idea until they did if I was going to continue breeding or if I was going to shut everything down.
I have a page going up that will give all the information I have on Adeno, but I'll admit right now that it is written from my perspective, and I have a strong bias towards testing.

Originally Posted by mikey

Sundial Reptile does mention adenovirus in their caresheet. Which I think is a great first step. Many people do not buy dragons off the internet, but they do search for care info and do read many different caresheets. Getting the info on as many as possible and getting people to start asking questions, including testing info, would help in my opinion. Like Wendy said she never even heard about this virus while putting her breeding group together. Threads get buried, caresheets don't.

http://www.sundialreptile.com/caresheets.htm

hi mikey, as I said I was just checking people from the thread who had a website so didn't see sundialrep. you are right, these threads will be buried but care sheets will always be searched for. I just think that people look on these sites when thinking of which dragons they would like along with the search for care sheets and so something should be placed with the sellers aswell within care sheets or a link for the reason you have put above for it is my point also.. get the info out and get people to start asking those important questions. I'm not going to go through everyones sites... it was just a small test example of those on the thread just think it would be something small for people to do that would probably make more impact than you know on buyers and those thinking of breeding

jojo xx

I just wanted to jump in here with another thing I learned just yesterday.
We do some rescue work and occasionally get a sick animal in to take care of. Yesterday morning I got a sick desert tortoise and had to make an unexpected emergency trip to my vet because I know pretty much nothing about sick desert tortoises. I had a chance to sit around for a little while after her office hours were over and she filled me in on one thing I didn't know.
In most states now, there are laws that regulate selling animals that might be sick or even carrying something that might make them sick. The short version of this is that in this state, you can be held responsible for selling any animal that carries a virus a disease that makes that animal sick or infects other animals. The exception in reptiles of course are naturally occuring parasites. You can not knowingly sell an animal that is sick because of parasites, but since they are naturally occuring, there has to be evidence that the animal was sold sick.
One of the arguments I've heard here, and presented to my vet, is that some people don't have easy access to a herp vet, but they have beautiful, thriving, healthy animals. If they breed these animals without testing and unknowingly pass Adeno on to others, what is their responsibility?
Her answer was pretty clear. The breeder can be held responsible, even if they don't know. Not only for refunding the sale price of the animal in question, but for vet bills for that animal and any animal that came into contact with that one if the owner decided to test or had veterinary issues with another animal as a direct result of the virus or illness.
She said that she has seen this a lot with IBD in boids, and as a vet, when she gets a new owner in with an obviously sick animal, she actually encourages them to contact the breeder or petstore to cover the bills, and if they are not responsive, to seek legal recourse. Not because she likes lawsuits, but she feels that in some cases, the only way to stop a petstore or breeder from infecting other animals is to hold them financially responsible for the results.

Originally Posted by Denisebme

Thank you. I have been working on the website to update it with Adeno information, but I don't have it ready to upload yet. I can be a little bit backlogged on the web page, and I didn't want to even start working on it until I had my test results back because I had no idea until they did if I was going to continue breeding or if I was going to shut everything down.
I have a page going up that will give all the information I have on Adeno, but I'll admit right now that it is written from my perspective, and I have a strong bias towards testing.

you must have just pipped me to the post or I would have asnwered yours at the same time as mikey. I understand completely if you are awaiting results (I feel poo now ) , so I apologise for that. On the flip side (of your response) I do think it is great that you are updating it with adeno info either way. I don't really see that their is too much wrong with a personal perspective, we can all go and get information that has been passed on and added to in a cold fashion but only those that have been in your postion and that of wendy and tere can explain what it actually feels like to be put in that place. and even in professional scripts they tend to put in evidence that follows thier opinion and backs it up so it is not completly unbiased... I think you have seen that this month on this thread.

what is your standpoint... you agree with testing obviously as you are having yours tested? As long as it provides helpful information no probs and no warning needed. it is your site.

we are all here to support you may you need it when those results come in ok
you've done the right thing.

And why are their no affectionate smilies on this forum???

anyway this is a hug lol ><

jojo xx