Ty park/ ty lizards FL

Originally Posted by FresnoTortoise

Your failure to do so, will be seen by the court as rejecting the prize.

I'm sure that Michelle's lawyers will bring this point up but in case she has not addressed it with them yet, it is important to note and remember that in shipping live animals, you must also make sure that someone will be available to sign for said animal. She didn't give her address, but Mr. Park also did not follow through on his obligation (as the provider of said animal) to make sure that she'd be available to receive the animal on an intended and specific date. Unless I'm misremembering (this is quite a long thread, so I may well be), he did not ask what day she would be available to receive her prize before trying to ship. This argument goes both ways.

Originally Posted by Robert Walker

At some point, the tegu that Michelle could have gotten was then re auctioned AND delivered to someone else do to her failure/refusal to provide her address.

This isn't really about sympathy - it's purely about whether or not anything the OP could have possibly said/done would justify her being left with nothing to show for having won the raffle.

Does her repeatedly asking for pics and lineage information about just what he intended to send her - no-brainer, common general questions in this business, moreso given the alternate-prize circumstance - amount to some kind of rational justification for his subsequent refusal to provide any prize? Ty Park choosing some arbitrary deadline after which she can be stiffed - while he's consistently refusing to answer her very relevant questions - is a reasonable course of action? Since you seem to be saying that you have no sympathy for the OP's position, it's hard not to take that as meaning that you agree with how Ty has chosen to handle this. Is that the case?

Despite his highly suspect, belated assertion here that he finally decided to actually send her a purple without feeling the need to inform her, the context clues point to a very high likelihood that that's simply untrue. He did refuse multiple times, after all. Either way, I think what she supposedly "could have" gotten is ultimately irrelevant, since she did get nothing at all. In my mind, even if she'd lost her mind and cussed him out, it still wouldn't amount to any semblance of a righteous justification for leaving her empty-handed. An obligation doesn't magically go away just because someone may feel slighted or annoyed.

To be perfectly blunt, I think that if someone feels it's acceptable that Ty - who had all of the power in this situation - has left her in a position where she no other recourse than to jump through the hoops of our legal system to even have a remote chance of getting what his terms specified - it's saying some seriously unflattering things about the person who holds such a view.

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Does her repeatedly asking for pics and lineage information about just what he intended to send her - no-brainer, common general questions in this business, moreso given the alternate-prize circumstance - amount to some kind of rational justification for his subsequent refusal to provide any prize? Ty Park choosing some arbitrary deadline after which she can be stiffed - while he's consistently refusing to answer her very relevant questions - is a reasonable course of action? Since you seem to be saying that you have no sympathy for the OP's position, it's hard not to take that as meaning that you agree with how Ty has chosen to handle this. Is that the case?

I interpreted Robert's post exactly the opposite as you did: I took his post to mean that he was sympathetic to Michelle because of the fact that Ty went on to send the prize to someone else (hereby meaning it was less that he didn't want to send the prize / didn't intend to send it and more specifically that he didn't want to send it to her).

Originally Posted by FresonTortoise

Your failure to do so, will be seen by the court as rejecting the prize.

Originally Posted by caffeinecynic

This argument goes both ways.

I'm not remotely convinced that you really need to put that much effort into refuting the idea that a judge would absolutely see it Ming Cong's way. I don't think that Ty arbitrarily stating something like, "do this tomorrow, or else," somehow legally obligates her to follow his command. It's not like a situation where she abandoned a tegu at his farm, where she'd subsequently forfeit ownership after ignoring his requests for her to take possession within a reasonable amount of allotted time. There was an active, ongoing dialogue between them, after all.

Originally Posted by caffeinecynic

I interpreted Robert's post exactly the opposite as you did:

I re-read it several times to make sure, but I could have managed to misunderstand his meaning - I have been awake for a long time. I do hope your interpretation is the right one.

Originally Posted by Fangthane

I'm not remotely convinced that you really need to put that much effort into refuting the idea that a judge would absolutely see it Ming Cong's way. I don't think that Ty arbitrarily stating something like, "do this tomorrow, or else," somehow legally obligates her to follow his command. It's not like a situation where she abandoned a tegu at his farm, where she'd subsequently forfeit ownership after ignoring his requests for her to take possession within a reasonable amount of allotted time. There was an active, ongoing dialogue between them, after all.

To be honest, I agree with you completely, but in all aspects of my life, I prefer to prepare for the worst case scenario and act accordingly. If it is unnecessary, at least my ducks are in a row.

Originally Posted by Robert Walker

This has always been the clincher for me, as far as my sympathy vote is concerned. What Casey has described above has been my understanding of said events as well. At some point, the tegu that Michelle could have gotten was then re auctioned AND delivered to someone else do to her failure/refusal to provide her address.

Was said tegu actually delivered to someone else successfully?
A simple "yes" or "no" by a helpful reader is enough, thanks.

Let me clarify my question further, something I should have done better in my post above. I realize that Michelle expected Tegu X from Ty Park. My question is, did Tegu Y (regardless of its origins, blue vs purple, T-/T+) ever even exist?
Did Michelle pass up Tegu Y only to have Ty successfully re auction & deliver it to someone other than Michelle? Is "Jane Doe" sitting at home enjoying her new Tegu Y thanks to Michelle passing it up? My question isn't if Michelle passed up what she believes is the "correct" Tegu, but rather did she pass up "any" Tegu?

1. Yes, she passed up a real tangible tegu
OR
2. No, she didn't pass up anything, because no correct or incorrect tegu ever existed.

Originally Posted by Chris Kennard

before any of you Mr.Walker fans pounce on me, don't bother. He is by far one of my favorite people on the planet, well deserved!

Back at you Chris, thanks.

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Since you seem to be saying that you have no sympathy for the OP's position, it's hard not to take that as meaning that you agree with how Ty has chosen to handle this. Is that the case?

Originally Posted by Robert Walker

This has always been the clincher for me, as far as my sympathy vote is concerned.

The answer to my Tegu Y question carries no weight on what I think is right or wrong in this situation, it only holds relevance to where my sympathy for the participants may lay or not. Disagreeing with one doesn't mean I have to agree with the other. Less sympathy for one does automatically transfer it to the other participant.

Pretending that Tegu Y did in fact exist and Michelle could have actually received it, my personal feelings currently are...

Right vs. Wrong:
Ty promised Tegu X or $3,000, however he only offered Tegu Y, thus putting him in the wrong and landing Michelle in the right.

Sympathy Vote:
Life is not fair and as adults most of us have seen this play out many times over. Realizing life isn't always fair, there are times when it is better to take what you can get out of a bad/wrong situation, cut your loses and leave. This doesn't make it right, it just makes it the reality of life. If Michelle goes to court and loses everything, it doesn't make it right, its just part of life...things aren't always fair. Realizing that the situation between her and Mr. Park had soured to where it did, I would have taken Tegu Y, and then started the BOI thread. Because of this strategic fumble, her refusal to compromise, her repetitively long and exhausting posts here* my sympathy for her situation is lacking, but not non-existent.

My sympathy is ALSO lacking for Mr. Park as well. I wish them both the best, but really have little sympathy for either right now.

*I don't always have the luxury of just avoiding threads I don't care to read.

Also please for the sake of the youngsters that might be reading go look over and maybe use different more family friendly language here on in.

Also kiddies, in any business relationship, when the the transaction begins to seem unfavorable, try to avoid using the words scammy or shady (among others) because at that point, you can expect the relationship to further deteriorate.

Originally Posted by Robert Walker

Less sympathy for one does automatically transfer it to the other participant.

Excuse my early morning response...
EDIT: "Less sympathy for one does NOT automatically transfer it to the other participant."

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

Also kiddies, in any business relationship, when the the transaction begins to seem unfavorable, try to avoid using the words scammy or shady (among others) because at that point, you can expect the relationship to further deteriorate.

Also kiddies when conducting a transaction be upfront and honest with the person you are conducting it with. If they ask you a question give them an answer don't string them along or give vague. Otherwise they might call you/the situation scammy or shady (among others) because at that point, you can expect the relationship to further deteriorate.

You see that works both ways. And I am still waiting for you to tell me why it is ok for Ty to not tell the OP what he was sending and where it came from.