Dillon and Rick Wascher, www.safedartfrogs.com

Originally Posted by Lucille

Sounds to me like there is a group, hopefully small, that expects they can just arrive , smear someone's business, not have to provide facts, and harm that person's business.

I am beginning to think this thread says more about those people and the way they operate, than the Waschers.

I agree with you. I hope that group is small as well. I hope I'm in the minority that is just sick of dealing it and them. I hope someone still has the motivation to provide the info you seek. I already regret getting involved. I know what is expected here. I accept your criticism, and were I in your shoes, based on the limited posts you've seen here, I'd feel the same way.

Unfortunately for you, you can't compel me to participate beyond what I am motivated to contribute. You're stuck attacking me hoping it will compel further participation. It might work, it might not.

I for one would love to see the Washers come here and discuss the issues that have been brought up, though the BOI is not the forum where that should have happened since it is here it would be logical to see some comment from them.
As for Ed's comments regarding the term Safe which they have TM'd, they purport that their frogs are completely harmless and safe, inferring handling, which they advise people to do in getting them to "eat out of their hands". Anyone that has kept a warm moist terrarium can tell you some nasty stuff grows in that environment, would anyone suggest to a child handling something from that environment is 100% safe and non toxic?

Originally Posted by markpulawski

I for one would love to see the Washers come here and discuss the issues that have been brought up, though the BOI is not the forum where that should have happened since it is here it would be logical to see some comment from them.
As for Ed's comments regarding the term Safe which they have TM'd, they purport that their frogs are completely harmless and safe, inferring handling, which they advise people to do in getting them to "eat out of their hands". Anyone that has kept a warm moist terrarium can tell you some nasty stuff grows in that environment, would anyone suggest to a child handling something from that environment is 100% safe and non toxic?

No, I think any responsible parent wraps their child in bubblewrap immediately out of the womb. Amazing I raised 6 children to adulthood without following my own advice, eh?

Originally Posted by tkevan

No, I think any responsible parent wraps their child in bubblewrap immediately out of the womb. Amazing I raised 6 children to adulthood without following my own advice, eh?

Nice Strawman.

Originally Posted by tkevan

No, I think any responsible parent wraps their child in bubblewrap immediately out of the womb. Amazing I raised 6 children to adulthood without following my own advice, eh?

So you think publishing something on a web site as fact that could potentially harm some one is OK. I am responsible enough to take care of my own business and my kids....sadly there are many out there that are not. Based on your comment it was probably good you raised your kids without following your own advice.

Originally Posted by markpulawski

So you think publishing something on a web site as fact that could potentially harm some one is OK. I am responsible enough to take care of my own business and my kids....sadly there are many out there that are not. Based on your comment it was probably good you raised your kids without following your own advice.

If you're worried about "nasty stuff" that grows in a terrarium, you should never let your child into the woods, near a creek, pond, bayou, etc. Life is 'potentially' harmful.

Originally Posted by ZooKeeperDoug

Nice Strawman.

No strawman. Look, it's obvious a few of you have issues with them because they're not the "purists" you want them to be. You've tossed out some accusations without any proof. None, notta, zip. I personally could care less about the FartFrogs, or whatever they are, but I can tell the difference in shinola and what you've posted.

Real simple....

1. What's the fraud you claim...
2. What's the nefarious actions you claim...

So far, your group is the ones running from EASY questions here.

This is getting a little far away from the risks posed by amphibians and their enclosures...
While it is true that you can pick up many of the same nasty bugs outside, this doesn't mean that the risks of infection is the same. For a simple example, we can look at the sources of infection from Mycobacterium marinum. It is possible to become infected with this disease from contaminated cuts or scratches in the environment but the source of the infection is much more commonly associated with aquariums. See for example http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=754060

It should also be noted that M. marinum and several other Mycobacteriums are a significant zoonotic risk from amphibians see for example http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art00009

This doesn't imply that the kids need to be wrapped in bubble wrap nor is it a prediction that these infections are an automatic consequence. It also should not be taken to mean that random handling amphibians is a best practice in amphibian care. As with fish, handling can remove mucus that is an integral part of important functions such as respiration, osmotic control and resistance to pathogens. As a result handling should be done when necessary and some simple precautions should be taken such as wetting one's hands before handling the amphibian and washing them throughly after the handling is finished.

Some comments

Ed

Ed,
Agreed, but M. marinum can be acquired from swimming pools also. In the US, it's very rare in children and is normally an adult infection. Those most at risk are the immune-compromised.

Umm, how is this current off-topic discussion re: environmental hazards and child-rearing relevant to the OP's original (and incoherent, unsubstantiated, IMWO) post?

It's not. It's about opinions, preferences and some debatable science. Better discussed elsewhere than the BOI, which is meant for inquiries and business transactions.

The OP is so committed to species purity and ethics that he posts a Bad Guy thread here. Yet he ordered frogs he never received prior to posting this Bad Guy thread and has yet to address that fact, even though he's been asked multiple times about that contradiction.

And then tells readers here to wade through, what, 160 pages of the same opinions, preferences and debatable science elsewhere?

Gimme a break.