****Anthony McCain BAD , STAy Away****

I agree that no albinos in 8 eggs isn't conclusive. Everyone has horrible odds every once in a while. But that being said, if the seller admitted that they were not het then I think it's case closed. A refund/compensation is definately in order.

I think this whole thing hinges on whether or not Anthony stated that they were hets or were not hets but sold to you as hets.

Yes

I am going to post the emails where it was admitted plainly it wasn't a het.

Anyone know anything abuot finding sent message sin hot mail. thanks again.

Derek

From : anthony mccain <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
Sent : Sunday, July 29, 2007 2:12 PM
To : "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: Female "Het" TO DEREK AND ALL


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I never said anything about you and ******** stuff, ***** himself said it wasn't you and he knew that.. YOU DID say that about talking to **** directly pal, said you "were going up to their place and ask about the Woods problem when you got there in person", YOU ARE A DAMN LIAR if you deny this buddy.... IM AM DONE WITH YOU GOOD LUCK TO YOU .. YOU HAVE DECIDED TO ACT LIKE A spoiled little brat so I'll treat you as such from here on out...GOOD LUCK to you.... AND YOU by the way raised a 2 1/2 yrs old female up NOT A baby idiot, she was over 750 grms when you got her a year ago , FAR FROM a baby.... I am tired of playing childish games with you, I AM NOT SENDING YOU $$, you find me ANY breeder that would handle this how YOU want it handled, as I said most would just send you $650 and tell you a refund has been issued to cover things.... DO you think a guy can buy a car for $20k , have it a year and take it back to the dealership and ask for 40k back since it didn't get the kind of ga mileage it said it should have on the window sticker???? YOU are making this hard on yourself... YOU could easily sell the Mystic or whatever... AND why not say whay ***** is doing for you, makes me wonder ... I didn't know that female wasn't going to prove out either that is something YOU have in your thick skull..... Anthony.... YOU NEED TO get a clue how the market is today Derek, MY MYSTICS are worth ALOT more than I am asking (4k male, 8 k pair) HOWEVER NOTHING IS selling if you had a clue, you only know/understand what PEOPLE are telling you , and MOST are telling you only WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, I have told you the truth on things and now your mad at me for clueing you in, whatever man, YOU will learn someday who is trying to work with you and tell you what the market is really doing, as I said a SUPER STRIPE for 10k is horrible considering they should be 20-25k , YOU JUST won't listen , that ISN"T MY FAULT ..... GO bother someone else.. I AM tired of holding your hand, and when I try helping you decide to spit in my face and act like a 3 year old, that doesn't get you far with me..............................................
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
To: <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Female "Het" TO DEREK AND ALL


Anthony

To finish off even more , if your going to try to make me a liar and say its weird I had 2 hets that didin't prove , your gonna lose. You already contradicted yourself in the email.

Yep , I have had snakes with RI , who hasn't??? Yep they did get dehydrated for a bit. Now they are hydrated.

I called you thinking I would get compensated , then you start off with how ***** ***** is mad at you and your gonna sell Mystic pairs cheap and you don't care whatpp;l think.. Why would I want anything from you after all this?

You want to bring up my personal life , go right ahead. No nothing got screwed up , my dad helped me clean and water them.

Yea ***** called me too , your trying to lie and say that I said he is selling ********* Balls cheap. I never said a word about anything like that and you know it.

I dont want your animals Anthony , so don't many ppl.

If your gonna try to drag other ppl into this go ahead. Im sure they have plenty of things to say about you.

What is happening between me and ***** is between me and him.


Keep up your lying Anthony and its only going to dig you into a bigger ditch.

Looks like your the only one stirring things up. Im trying to get whats rightfully mine.

If you need some time to come up with the money let me know.

Its worth going through for me Anthony if it keeps you from doing this to someone else and treating them like garbage .

Derek

From: "anthony mccain" <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
To: "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Female "Het" TO DEREK AND ALL
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:03:22 -0500

Derek, I told you I was going to send you the Mystic friday morning and you were fine with that, now your saying it isn't ... I said you can keep the female adult and her babies and I will get the male Mystic to you.. At this point I see no reason to go back and forth here , I will still do as I said and you will have 1k worth of animals (maybe more as het albinos are $350/ pair and an adult female proven is $200 or more still , you had 8 eggs Derek ) + a Mystic that has a 4k market value as well.. ALSO the HET G Stripes are FROM VIRGIN POSS HET FEMALE G Stripes bred ONLY to the G Stripe male so their is ZERO chance that they have ANY issues Derek , you are being unreasonable and unrealistic and I am being honest, and serious with you and trying to fix anything with you.. YOU can run to the BOI I WILL NOT respond to ANY of it , as I will simply have people contact me and tell them that I agreed to send you a 4k Mystic since the $650 female "het" didn't prove out and that I told you to KEEP ALL the babies and the adult AS WELL ... and I will also mention to any that we agreed to send a mystic to you and that you even called back later that friday to thank me for working it out and being willing to send out a 4k Mystic to make this adjust into a realistic dollar value for you by letting you keep everything and send the mystic to you as well, and that I told you not to worry about send the lazer ball either as I said it was fine even if I sent you considerably more than the clutch would have been worth anyway, as I didn't want you upset as I was honest in that it was a mistake that I was correcting for you...***** called me tonight and mentioned your name , already things are turning out not so good as I am trying to fix it and your just adding fuel to a fire that I already went out of my way to put out... ALSO WHAT is ***** doing about his female het albino that also didn't prove out Derek, seems very weird that 2 well know breeders each have an animal that "didn't make " albinos for you, you have other normals /hets /etc, you have already told me that you were away at the mental hospital last winter and had people looking after things, you called asking how to cure dehydrated snakes etc, how are we to know things didn't get messed up there when all that was taking place???. I remember all this too Derek.. As I said I have no problem sending a Mystic to you , however I do not appreciate your comments to others as I am sure they are not hearing the entire deal here, I will mass email people how I tried to resolve this , and that you were fine with the solution and how your now turning all this into a $6k refund over a $650 snake , after I had already agreed to send a 4k Mystic and let you keep everything you already have on top of it!... I know some people would just refund you the $650 and call it a completed refund, I was/am willing to go beyond that with the Mystic to "make it right" as you call it , but this is getting redicilious Derek... YOU may feel free to call me, I won't call you as you said not to.. I am not taking this any further ,there is no reason for it, we both agreed on this and regardless of what others are telling you to do for whatever reasons they may have to try and make this into some big drama fest for the BOI, of which I have NO time to waste going back and forth over something I have already more than fairly handled, and we both had resolved already, on friday.. AS I said I have a solid reputation on ANY hets and since this is a "one time" case I am handling this the best I can, most with any reasoning would agree that you are not being robbed here and are getting a respectable animal worth serious cash (for alot LESS than the original $650 for the female that was 750 grms when you got her, the way people would see it) , a Mystic is a visual morph, and I will send you a quality animal as I have done in the past to you and all the rest out there that have animals from me... The overpayment on the female IF she is a normal is /was $200 a year ago so I think a 4k animal is more than adequate for your $400 loss, and if you put ANY value on the Het albino babies she made it isn't even a $400 difference or loss ... YOU mentioned to me on the phone the ordeal that **** went thru with ***** *****, and told me you were going to "get to the bottom of things and ask **** and ***** directly how things got messed up" with the genetics in house at ****, as "they didn't want to talk about it over the phone " as you went on telling me.. I ask you Derek what are you trying to accomplish , do you like to get people stirred up or something?? People don't appreciate things like that, you nor I have time for it, isn't that what you've told me time and time again, not to even get involved??.. I am able to make up for this and now your saying I need to buy 6k worth of stuff back from you, animals you paid under 3k total for a year or less ago, animals that you've already admitted were dehydrated last winter, and some of which you said had a respiritory infection mid winter to the point that you had to "give a few of them some time off breeding till they were fine again".. AND then to top it all off your worried my Mystic could be inferior?? Tell you what, I will mail it directly to someone near you, an outside neutral party, so you can BOTH see the animal I send you would be flawless, if that makes you feel any better ..You've heard about my animals as have others , and I am not selling anything I wouldn't buy myself.... By the way if you'd like a list of herpers that have hets from me that is fine , I have alot of adult hets out there and alot of backing that should help assure you or anyone else for that matter that this isn't something I 've had happen to others at all Derek, so there is no point in turning this into something it isn't, this isn't a Top Shelf Exotics ordeal and you already know it , so why even try going there, as I won't participate in games like that, you peronally have told me it isn't worth going thru all that (refering to the BOI drama) , and your instead proving your true colors if you do start something , as you know I am being fair and honest about this and am working to get you a Mystic to make it right, the same bloodline you've been asking "how much" ,"when can I get one", etc, etc, my offer is real and your acting like this , I just don't get it man..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
To: <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Female "Het"


Anthony

The real problem here is that when I originally told you , you already knew and didn't say anything. Next off , you treat me like peice of garbage , and talk down to me. I don't care how long you have been in the business , you don't talk to ppl like that . It was stupid of me , but I used to keep my mouth shut , not doing that anymore. All I hear from other ppl , is how you treat them like garbage and its not happening anymore. You throw me an offer , expect me to take it and keep my mouth shut. Not happening .

I don't want your animals , or anything to do with them , as it would only lead to more issues. About $4k dollars here , not incliding lost time.

Same thing with the het G-Stripes . I don't want to have to deal with them if anything happens. Paid $2, 250

Thats $6, 250 + , cash.

We can work this out here , or on the BOI . You can do the right thing and and settle it the right way , by full compensation. Im not letting this go. Don't call my phone as im not getting into an arguement on there.

Derek



From: "anthony mccain" <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
To: "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Female "Het"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:42:15 -0500

AS I SAID Derek, I will send you a Male Mystic worth 4k and YOU can keep ALL the babies and adult female on your end .. THIS has never happend this way to me before and this is more than a fair way to handle this, ask around I have NEVER had a Het not prove out EVER.. I never would have thought a female that didn't go the year before would complicate things this way, it had never happened to me so I didn't think it was an issue , obviously the slim chance that she retained sperm from the year before must have been the problem... I am trying to handle this fairly and you are not listening to reason Derek.. Call me so we can settle this, you can keep your LAzer stuff or whatever your calling them , I don't need that either, I will send you a male Mystic, you can just keep the adult female and the babies , you easily have your 5k worth like your saying here.. And by the way 5k out of a $650 investment is a huge return to expect in a year on a single female in todays market... Anthony..
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Federico" <derekfederico@hotmail.com>
To: <mccainreptiles@iowatelecom.net>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: Female "Het"


Hey Anthony


Hows it going?

I have been thinking man , and I don't really agree with what you want to do. I don't want to argue on the phone here.

Heres is how I see it.

I paid you $650 for a supposed het. So really I got a $150 normal.

I, Raised it up to and bred it with my albino , and have 8 eggs hatching now. No albinos.

So at least 3 albinos at an averaqge of $750 for a male now and $900 for a female .

Call it $850 per albino.

So now I am out 3 albinos , Adult het female , and 1 year.

3 albinos @ 825 each is $2,475

Adult het female that big is $1500-$2000

1 years time- ?????? , Ill call around and ask.

There is at least $4k dollars in animals here i am out and time Anthony. I know it was a mistake Anthony , but this the truth. I don't believe I want to send anything in becaus eI dont owe you anything. I want to settle this soon. If you want to call and scream and yell Anthony , call someone else. I have other Hets from you (1.1) het G-Stripes , and im not going through this again. So I rather send them back too.
Let me know if you want to work this out. talk soon


Derek

Hey all

Here are the emails. There is one missing email I sent , that I cant seem to track down , as i Sent 2 different ones and Anthony only replied to one. The bold part clearly shows that he believes its not a het.

The fact that Anthony called me 2 days before I cut them wondering how many albinos I had , never said anything anything.

On the phone , his reason for not saying anything " He didn't want to jinks me" I'm not even sure what that means.

Sort thought it , tell me what you think.

God Bless

Derek

So, from 8 eggs from albino X het albino, you're looking at 4 albinos, not 3. $3300.
You paid for a normal 700g female instead of a het 700g female: difference; $500.
You're also out 2 het albino babies (as an albino X het will produce all albinos, and theoretically you shoud have produced 4 @ $250 each = $1000.
You simply cannot count the "Adult het albino" because you bought her, and counted her as a $500 loss already
That's $4800.
Not to mention lost time with this project.
He wants you to take an already overpriced animal and call it even?
I'd tell him to suck it.

Am I missing something?

Where did he tell you that it was a normal and not a het? One breeding does not prove/disprove a het. I can see you thinking it's not a het since you bred it to a visual albino but the odds sometimes suck.

If he sold you a het, stands behind it being a het, and is willing to give you a Mystic to make you happy for crapping out on the odds, why is he a bad guy?

I just don't follow this.

This is the jist of what I got. Correct me where or if I am wrong.
Anthony sold you a het albino.
You bred it but crapped out on the odds and didn't get an albino.
You contacted him about having normal looking offspring.
He offered a Mystic to make up for lost time/babies.

If that is how this transpired, Anthony is not being a bad guy.

Please clarify the situation because from what I could gather, Anthony is trying hard to make you a happy customer and not rip you off.

I'm not taking sides here, but some of you crack me up; the only guarantee you get with a Homo X Het is that all babies will be 100% Het. You have a 50% chance per egg of getting a Homo, but there is no guarantee( I had a clutch of 7 eggs this year Hypo male to a proven Het Hypo female that produced 3 hypos last year out of 7 eggs, this year she produced no hypos) Also, some of you aren't even taking into account the price difference based on sex when "calculating" how much Derek should be compensated.

Derek this sucks for you, I also have a female I bought as a 100% Het Albino 3 years ago that has yet to prove out when bred to my Albino male, and since the guy that sold her disappeared 2 years ago I doubt she will ever prove out. I feel your pain, that being said I doubt you ever see the compensation that you are requesting/demanding. If he was going to "make things right" he would have done so long before it made it here to the BOI. I hope you get some sort of satisfaction, best of luck to you!

Just throwing things out there on the bad odds possibility (I am staying out of the argument). I have a friend who bred Het Albino X het Albino boas, he got 35 babies. Only one was Albino. Stats say 1/4 should be Albino, so about 8 Albinos. Mother nature isn't always fair.

As I said, I am staying out of everything else, just wanted to mention that one clutch/litter isn't really the best test on something. I don't know anyone who has posted here so I am staying out of it.

Originally Posted by SPJ

Am I missing something?

Where did he tell you that it was a normal and not a het? One breeding does not prove/disprove a het. I can see you thinking it's not a het since you bred it to a visual albino but the odds sometimes suck.

If he sold you a het, stands behind it being a het, and is willing to give you a Mystic to make you happy for crapping out on the odds, why is he a bad guy?

I just don't follow this.

This is the jist of what I got. Correct me where or if I am wrong.
Anthony sold you a het albino.
You bred it but crapped out on the odds and didn't get an albino.
You contacted him about having normal looking offspring.
He offered a Mystic to make up for lost time/babies.

If that is how this transpired, Anthony is not being a bad guy.

Please clarify the situation because from what I could gather, Anthony is trying hard to make you a happy customer and not rip you off.

Well ,
Anthony told me on the phone , he was checking the records and he bred the sister to my het female to an albino , got 6 eggs and no albinos.

So his reason for the sister not proving , is because it got bred to a co- dom the year before and had retained sperm.

The reason for mine not proving is because , I got bad odds.

2 sister het s, both bred to albinos , 14 eggs total , no albinos. This COULD happen , but I gonna have go with no.

Anthony arrogantly throws an offer in my face , tells me to take it .

Ever think I don't want a Mystic?

The bold writing in the email , clearly shows that he esteems the female as a normal now.... thats how i see it , he mixed up some animals , it can happen. Anthony throwing an offer at me and is mad that I wont take HIS offer.

thanks

Derek