Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

I do not currently have hatchlings available, just the holdbacks which are more valuable then hatchlings. No shipping to you sir. 10 hour drive, come on down.

What are the rough sizes of the hold backs?

Pictures can be seen on our Facebook page -

Arizona Tortoise Compound -
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizo...79857695368687

What would you estimate their value?

I don't think you owe him a thing Andrew! I've done business with you before and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Sometimes things happen, this was out of your control and you did everything in your power when the buyer notified you of the delay in shipping. Since you are obviously in compliance with your terms then there is nothing to worry about, anyone who reads the whole story and still has a problem probably isn't someone you want to do business with anyway.

So if you order a VERY expensive animal from someone and it dies during shipping from their mistake you are going to say don't worry, after the shipper will not make it right? Just trying to get this for the record.

Originally Posted by Jennbell0725

Sometimes things happen, this was out of your control

Whether his actions directly played a part in the tort's demise is VERY debatable. Fortunately, your oh-so-objective opinion doesn't really apply to the situation. The base idiocy in your comments is fairly astounding. I suspect that the fact that you've done business with ATC is about as far as you're willing/able to think the situation through. I bet you'd be singing an entirely different tune, had you paid dearly for an animal that arrived dead. It absolutely IS ATC's responsibility to provide an animal that arrives as-described - ALIVE. Much like the rest of his supporters, you apparently lack the capacity to see beyond your own interests. I have to assume that you're grubbing for a future discount. Or maybe you're just clueless. Not sure which the lesser of those two evils would be.

Originally Posted by Jennbell0725

Since you are obviously in compliance with your terms then there is nothing to worry about, anyone who reads the whole story and still has a problem probably isn't someone you want to do business with anyway.

In my eyes, anyone with even the slightest modicum of intelligence and integrity can see that his terms are highly unethical and laughably self-serving; quite possibly unlawful. I'd counter that anyone who actually reads this thread and continues to support him, is someone who lacks ethics and basic decency; clearly someone to be pointed out and avoided. Thanks for standing up to be counted among those who support the idea that it's okay to rip someone off. Welcome to The List.

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Whether his actions directly played a part in the tort's demise is VERY debatable. Fortunately, your oh-so-objective opinion doesn't really apply to the situation. The base idiocy in your comments is fairly astounding. I suspect that the fact that you've done business with ATC is about as far as you're willing/able to think the situation through. I bet you'd be singing an entirely different tune, had you paid dearly for an animal that arrived dead. It absolutely IS ATC's responsibility to provide an animal that arrives as-described - ALIVE. Much like the rest of his supporters, you apparently lack the capacity to see beyond your own interests. I have to assume that you're grubbing for a future discount. Or maybe you're just clueless. Not sure which the lesser of those two evils would be.


In my eyes, anyone with even the slightest modicum of intelligence and integrity can see that his terms are highly unethical and laughably self-serving; quite possibly unlawful. I'd counter that anyone who actually reads this thread and continues to support him, is someone who lacks ethics and basic decency; clearly someone to be pointed out and avoided. Thanks for standing up to be counted among those who support the idea that it's okay to rip someone off. Welcome to The List.

How are his terms unethical? The fact that you think that shows how full of it you are. How can someone guarantee live delivery with no conditions? Shit happens!!! He would be an idiot to do that. The fact that the buyer purchased such an expensive animal and then didn't want to go through the hassle of having it shipped via delta nor was he willing to pick it up at the hub shows so much. If I had forked out thousands(cash+trade) I would do everything in my power to make sure the shipping was a foolproof as possible. I've driven 12+ hours do pay 600 for a tortoise before, I would be willing do do much more for a specimen worth thousands. How is this Andrew's fault? He called UPS as soon as he was notified and got the buyer a chance to pick up the tort that night, he shipped per his conditions. It wasn't his fault the shipping was delayed, he didn't put the tort in a plastic bag, he didn't refuse to pick up the tortoise at the hub. Please explain how he is at fault?

As for my motives for this post. ANY TIME you purchase a live animal to be shipped, death is a possibility. When you consider the amount of shipping ATC goes through it was bound to happen sooner or later, the only reason this post has gotten so much attention is because so many people have heard of ATC. I can tell you right now I've done business with ATC once, but I have also done business with some of his competitors ALL of which have recommended him to me if they didn't have what I wanted at the time. That tells me way more that one bad review any day. As for me wanting something out of the deal, I have never dealt with Andrew on Fauna so I highly doubt he will even recognize my name or remember my transaction without looking it up. As for a discount? I look at way more than price when I purchase a tortoise.

Every reputable and aboveboard dealer will guarantee live delivery if signed for on first attempt. Anything else is crooked and a bad deal. I think that almost EVERYONE will agree on this. Why don't you read his TOS carefully before we get too deep into this discussion. As far as "****" happening, that doesn't sit well as an excuse. I sell very expensive antique radios. If you pay for one and it gets busted during shipping will it be ok if I tell you "****" happens and refuse to make it right?

My tortoise came in good shape.