40 Dead Snakes Found In Greensboro Home, Man Charged

Originally Posted by herp_huggs

Um no... being as I'm not a *bleeping* idiot and would not allow A SINGLE ONE of my animals die of MY negligence... (unlike some....)

Let me guess, you haven't been in the hobby terribly long and only have a small number of common sp. of snakes?

No, now I'm simply mentioning the possibility that he moved out, leaving his LIVING animals behind to die.

On grounds of what?

[quote]Someone commited animal neglect or cruelty (very different things,neglect almost always being considered "accidental" by some standards not sure if you know that...?).[quote]

That's not true at all. Care to show me one case of someone whose animals were killed through accident convicted of a crime against animals? If it were, everyone who's ever lost animals in a barn fire, had a dog run out and get hit in the road, accidentally hit a box turtle with a lawn mower, etc. would be liable to face animal cruelty/neglect charges. Legally, it has to be intentional, no exceptions. Or they could haul half of us away anyday, no problem.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a bad dog breeder or hoarder on tv, getting away with every bit of it, and hoped so hard for them to get "busted" only to see that they can continue due to laws being in their favor... In this story, the man responsible has at least been charged with an actual crime, that's a fact. (no making it up or "amending" the story here). Someone with the proper authority seems to agree with me....
A little more info:
http://www.wxii12.com/r/27050663/detail.html

"Walton was arrested and charged with 43 counts of animal cruelty."

Yes, apparently he has been charged, doesn't make it right though. I'm also curious to know how they charged him without first determining how the snakes had died.

The point is, you sound like you're obviously new to this, accidents happen, even to knowledgable people with the best intentions. Animals die. Your argument is weak and obviously very emotionally driven, but you just can't refute the fact that we don't know how the snakes died, there are plausible explanations as to how the animals died that do not include animal cruelty/neglect whether you can understand that or not. Yes, he shouldn't have left them and he should be charged accordingly with improper disposal of animal carcasses. But to accuse him of anything else is just speculation, regardless of what he's been charged with. Just let it be, are you really so arrogant as to assume that you know everything as to paint a clear picture as to what happened regarding the case based on the little bit of information provided?

"Let me guess, you haven't been in the hobby terribly long and only have a small number of common sp. of snakes?"

Actually, I've been in the hobby my entire life starting with my mom getting Burmese python when I was about 8. I do only have one ball python as far as snakes go (for now) I've kept various reptiles, amphibians, mammals, birds, spiders, dogs cats etc etc. You can try your very bestest at cutting me down, but it only shows to your character, not mine. (and you will not hurt my feelings, sorry) I am well aware of what exactly is involved with the care of every animal I've owned in the past, or now. ( I can't say the same for probably half of the animal owners in this world) I am curious as to how you've determined this about me, but honestly don't really care either... someone could easily say similar things about you and your thoughts on this matter... (not sayin I am, just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my animal experience, and I know nothing of you.)

" Care to show me one case of someone whose animals were killed through accident convicted of a crime against animals? "

Ok this is fun, care to show me one case where someone was found to have 43 dead animals in their basement be equitted of a crime against animals?? Hmm?

"Yes, apparently he has been charged, doesn't make it right though. I'm also curious to know how they charged him without first determining how the snakes had died."

Doesn't make it right? Oh how dare they charge someone they believe to have commited a crime... proving how the snakes died or if this man is guilty will be determined in court, not on this thread. Proof isn't required before charging someone, determining "beyond reasonable doubt" or "probable cause" is, and if the police in this county jumped the gun without proper evidence then he will get off and be on his merry way (this is what the judicial system is all about).

"The point is, you sound like you're obviously new to this, accidents happen, even to knowledgable people with the best intentions."

Lol, again, my husbandry isn't in question because my animals aren't rotting away in my old apartment... In fact they're quite cozy and loving life currently (spring is upon them lol)
As far as "best intentions" go, the thought that this guy had them is very very debatable...

"Your argument is weak and obviously very emotionally driven, but you just can't refute the fact that we don't know how the snakes died, there are plausible explanations as to how the animals died that do not include animal cruelty/neglect whether you can understand that or not"

Your argument is weak. And if my being emotional about this is bothering you, I'm sorry... I just happen to love animals more than people and my feelings in that regard are reinforced every single day...
There are perfectly probable ways these animals died that do involve cruelty. (Whether they froze or starved etc)

"Just let it be, are you really so arrogant as to assume that you know everything as to paint a clear picture as to what happened regarding the case based on the little bit of information provided?"

Yes. I'd rather be arrogant than naive... I never said that I "know everything" about this, didn't even come close actually... your argument is that this guy "may not" be guilty, my argument is that he was charged for a reason, nothing more. Honestly, he'll more than likely not get anything more than a couple fines and some cleanup costs (if anything) but that doesn't mean that its ok that his animals died and that he shouldn't have to answer for it.

Originally Posted by herp_huggs

Actually, I've been in the hobby my entire life starting with my mom getting Burmese python when I was about 8. I do only have one ball python as far as snakes go (for now) I've kept various reptiles, amphibians, mammals, birds, spiders, dogs cats etc etc. You can try your very bestest at cutting me down, but it only shows to your character, not mine. (and you will not hurt my feelings, sorry) I am well aware of what exactly is involved with the care of every animal I've owned in the past, or now. ( I can't say the same for probably half of the animal owners in this world) I am curious as to how you've determined this about me, but honestly don't really care either... someone could easily say similar things about you and your thoughts on this matter... (not sayin I am, just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my animal experience, and I know nothing of you.)

I've made absolutely no attempts at cutting you down, I'm just endorsing simple logic.

Ok this is fun, care to show me one case where someone was found to have 43 dead animals in their basement be equitted of a crime against animals?? Hmm?

No, you think you're being coy and clever here, but you're forgetting that the burden of proof falls on the individual making the claim, I never claimed that people found to have dead animals in their basement are usually aquitted of any crime/wrong doing. I honestly don't even think this guy will be acquitted, that's neither here nor there.

Doesn't make it right? Oh how dare they charge someone they believe to have commited a crime... proving how the snakes died or if this man is guilty will be determined in court, not on this thread. Proof isn't required before charging someone, determining "beyond reasonable doubt" or "probable cause" is, and if the police in this county jumped the gun without proper evidence then he will get off and be on his merry way (this is what the judicial system is all about).

Yes, I understand that, I was questioning how they felt they had cause to charge him with animal cruelty solely by looking at dead bodies of snakes he had in plastic tubs.

Lol, again, my husbandry isn't in question because my animals aren't rotting away in my old apartment... In fact they're quite cozy and loving life currently (spring is upon them lol)
As far as "best intentions" go, the thought that this guy had them is very very debatable...

I didn't question your husbandry or claim that he had the best of intentions.

There are perfectly probable ways these animals died that do involve cruelty. (Whether they froze or starved etc)

Correct! And I never denied that as a possibility. But why only assume this was the case?

Yes. I'd rather be arrogant than naive... I never said that I "know everything" about this, didn't even come close actually... your argument is that this guy "may not" be guilty, my argument is that he was charged for a reason, nothing more. Honestly, he'll more than likely not get anything more than a couple fines and some cleanup costs (if anything) but that doesn't mean that its ok that his animals died and that he shouldn't have to answer for it.

You're cancelling out your own statements. Why can't you just accept the idea that there isn't anywhere near enough information for one to safely conclude that animal cruelty was involved in this situation? Also, how am I being "naive" if I'm being open minded and accepting the possibility that there was no instance of animal cruelty committed here? I'm just curious, since you haven't any legal party's side of the story and haven't really seen more than two pictures, how are you taking the liberty to assume that animal cruelty took place?

Off-topic--- Break.

Sorry guys, Your going to have to say goodbye to David, I mean Thomas. That's his real name. He has a habit of trolling different forums.
I would have ended this sooner but besides the ISP match I wanted to make very sure who it was first and now I'm confident.

It isn't against the rules here to have multiple accounts but the false name and posting ads in the classifieds is.

Thomas, considering you posted in the classifieds under a false name I'll be adding the points to your original account. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...er.php?u=78092

As of right now, the account isn't banned but I didn't check the points to see if once I hit it for this infraction if you will be suspended again.

Let me make this clear, You are on your last notice here. If you create another account in attempt to troll this forum your original account will banned permanently and you with it. Shape up or get out.

Resume topic.

Ahah! I thought I smelled a troll...

Thanks, Dennis! :-)

Originally Posted by herp_huggs

Ahah! I thought I smelled a troll...

Thanks, Dennis! :-)

That does explain the breaks in logic he was using to try and prove his point!

Okay, so I can see that if his power went off the snakes are kinda screwed for a night or 2 or a week...But what was stopping him, if he had 40 snakes, to sell one or 2 or 3 or jesus 5 of them for cheap just to pay for the electricity to get turned on....

I mean that seems logical enough, if you cared about your animals and it was either sell a couple for half price or let them all die....Is there really a choice in the matter?

And even if he couldn't find someone to buy them quick enough, he leaves all this crap behind, obviously not needing/wanting it, pawn the freakin tv and other stuff for the electric bill.

Either way, the guy showed no care for them when they were certain to die from the cold, no care for them after they died, I will just make the broad assumption that he showed no care for them while they were alive. I don't think that would be much of an assumption though.

it wouldn't be too much work for someone who cares about their animals....

Originally Posted by AcidRainbow

Why should he be charged with animal cruelty? It appears [if the video comments check out] that he lost electricity in December and that's what killed the snakes. If that's true, it was merely accidental and not "cruelty." In the case that they were accidentally frozen, that's actually a fairly humane way to die for an ectotherm. I'd be inclined to believe, since he had morphs and was breeding, that this would be true. They were obviously of value and he obviously knew the trade to an extent at which he could get them off his hands if he so pleased. It's unlikely he's just some moron with a "couple of PY-tons." Either way, there's not enough evidence to conclude that he mistreated or intentionally harmed these animals.

I think the true villain in this story is the they interviewed. "We definately learned a lesson, next time we're going to be more strict, more unexpected visits. Um, more penalties and stuff like that because apparently people take advantage <sound cuts off>" As someone who until recently, has been raised in rental after rental and has always respected the properties, I'm disgusted when people who sell [or in this case, rent] their product out to consumers turn around and treat them like second rate citizens. Some are just downright unpleasant elitists.

IF you own dogs and were breeding them in your house and you lost power and just let your dogs freeze to death AND then not have the decency to take care of them properly. THEN just move and leave it to someone else is STILL CRUELTY.
If his snakes froze to death....ACCIDENTALLY, and he just left them in there racks to die along with all the rats and all the eggs, he is, simply put, a scumbag.

Bummer...I posted and then I realized he got banned and was a total troll. Oh well. Us sensible people see that this guy neglected his animals.