Trans Vs. Partial Trans

I'm sure that this topic has been addressed a multitude of times, but I haven't seen any posts about it because I rarely visit the discussion forum. Anyway, I wanted to know what causes a dragon to be a partial translucent. I believe I have heard that it comes from having the hypo gene in the mix. Is that correct? Are all translucents without the hypo gene true translucents or can they still be partials?

My understanding is that any translucents without black eyes are called partial trans.

I could be wrong as I am not much of a translucent guy.

Originally Posted by ELizCVT04

Anyway, I wanted to know what causes a dragon to be a partial translucent. I believe I have heard that it comes from having the hypo gene in the mix. Is that correct? Are all translucents without the hypo gene true translucents or can they still be partials?

I am going to rephrase your question (explained next paragraph, and to align it with the my answer...) ; what causes the partial*translucent & hypo polygenic phenotype?

I have theories, but limited experience with the translucent mutation (not a big fan, I have produced less than 100) and zero experience breeding "partials" I have not produced a translucent from monogenic parents (trans without the hypo factor) so I cannot comment on the trans-only portion of your question.

Epistasis: A lot of genes work independent of each other, but sometimes one gene cannot function without the presence of an independent gene (the two genes don't do anything together, but one gene needs another gene for expression). [example: gene a suppresses certain chromatophores *pigment containing and light reflecting cells*, and gene b dictates the distribution of gene A (gene a does not need gene b , and if gene B was missing from the genotype then that dragon may appear patched, or partial translucent] This would imply more than one gene affects the overall outcome of the phenotypes expression. Quantitative inheritance. (not using polygenic here (and I really could) because the expression of the traits may not be influenced by two different phenotypes, still they are two genes). QI and polygenic are essentially the same, actually they are, but for simplicity I use QI and polyg separately.

Repression (molecular genetics): a DNA Binding protein (repressor) that blocks phenotype expression to varying degrees. My understanding of molecular genetics is vague, and I have almost no research backing this theory. Basically the body tries to put a stop to the gene.

Multiple allele: Every diploid organism inherits 1 allele from each parent for each gene. Each gene is made up of a pair of alleles. Alleles are found on the loci (specific location) of a chromosome, and some loci can have multiple alleles that can each affect the outcome of a gene. If multiple alleles are present then the phenotype may be expressed differently depending on which allele is selected during chromosomal crossover. However, multiple allele conditions often result in no change of the phenotype, no matter which allele is selected during chromosomal crossover.

Polygenic: Simply put a polygenic trait is a phenotype of two or more separate genes. Hypo and translucent when combined is a polygenic trait because the phenotype is made up of two *or more* genes. Significant variations of the typical hypo trans phenotype can occur at the allele level as the certain characteristics can be drastically changed by certain alleles that make up the gene. Polygenic is a bit of Mendel principal, multiple alleles and a pinch of epistasis. (lol, nerd joke, really not funny in hindsight.)

This is theory, loose theory, feel free to debate, I would like to advance this topic and a group discussion will certainly help All alone out here.

By the way M.F., I hit all of your topics so we won't have to do this on the phone tomorrow. LOL.

A trans with the hypo gene is called a hypo trans.

A trans does not need a hypo gene to be a true trans.

Originally Posted by ELizCVT04

I believe I have heard that it comes from having the hypo gene in the mix. Is that correct? Are all translucents without the hypo gene true translucents or can they still be partials?

I do realize that, but wondered if translucents without the hypo gene are ever partial trans as I have never seen one.

As I said earlier I do not have experience but yes, I asked around and they do, translucent independent of the hypo gene can express the partial-trans phenotype.

Yes partial trans are common. sometimes trying to pick out a dragon with 2 full black eyes out of a clutch will have you tearing your hair out.

Originally Posted by ELizCVT04

I do realize that, but wondered if translucents without the hypo gene are ever partial trans as I have never seen one.

My experience with hypo/trans is only 2 years this will be the 3rd not sure what the hypo gene does. But I am working with three hypo/trans black eyes and they have produced a very high % full black eye hypo/trans offspring when paired with a DBL het i made sure one of the parents of these DBL hets had black eyes. On the hand I have 2 non black eye partial trans females one het hypo and one non het hypo and these both when paired with the same DBL het males produce a very small % of black eye trans both in the hypo and non hypo. And when people say their eyes are not fully black yet, my experience is they hatch out with what look like black eyes but start to turn normal as they get a little older. I'm no expert but my conclusion is black eye trait = mostly black eye off spring with or with out the hypo gene. Non black eye trait = mostly non black eye off spring.

The belgium trans line that the Dachiu's have been working with, is notorious for producing partial trans/partial dark eyed adults(with no hypo influence). The babies hatch almost normal looking, then gradually turn trans, and eyes change over, as they mature.

The Trans line that Sandfire I have been working with produces transluscent babies with zero white, and dark eyes out of the egg(with no hypo influence). They grow into adults looking the same way. Hypo is a major influence in making partial trans/partial dark eyes with this line, and making even more partial trans/partial dark eyes with the belgium line. The two genetics are complete opposites of each other. One produces a lot of white, the other removes it.

Josh

Funny both my non black eye trans are from the belgium lines. Now I know more! Thanx Josh great info.