Heavy parasite load found in ball python from Ed Clark

Ed, I should have said 5-6 fecal exams that were done prior to your notification by Emily.

Griz

Griz, I do believe the timeline is that she did bring this to Ed about a week ago when it occurred and the tests were done. Ed was, from what I can read, given time to respond. A response that he isn't sure or can't remember if the snakes involved in this trade were in fact produced by him (as he stated) or in fact came from elsewhere is for me, under these sorts of circumstances, not something I'd be terribly thrilled with either.

I do have two snakes in our collection that came to us originally from Ed's collection. They'll both be having fecals done for our peace of mind.

As far as feeding, it is my understanding that Emily produces her own feeder rats. If these three things can come through a feeder animal, then would it not stand to reason that other snakes in her collection would be afflicted in a similar manner?

I really would like to be educated properly on how tapeworms, strongyloides and coccidia suddenly show up in a snake in a captive environment. I've been googling madly of course but I'd like to have a clear idea on this.

I do not believe Emily is looking for compensation or to be "difficult" about this but rather to simply inform other herpers of a possible risk (and personally I appreciate the warning).

Originally Posted by bud mierkey

Clean as they come means as clean as others good cb.
remember parasites can be transfered from the mother to the neonate. quarantine and do a fecal it would have showed up saving the reptile lots of suffering.

Wow....so you're saying Ed's adult breeders are infested with parasites and passing them on to the babies he is selling. Good stuff to know.

Emily has fully owned that she should have had fecals done as soon as the snakes arrived in her care. At the time that she did the trade, Ed was still charming everyone and convincing them he had a huge breeding facility and produced all his own babies that he had for sale. Now we know differently.

How many of us have ever seen Ed stand up and willingly take responsibility for any error or lie he has made? He only does so when confronted publicly and eventually finds himself unable to talk his way out of whatever it is. And even then, the subject is usually completely ignored by him at that point until it finally fades away. He made it perfectly clear that he would not take the least amount of responsibility for the parasites found...much less take the time and go through the humbling experience of contacting all of his customers to let them know they should have fecals done on any animals purchased from him.

I don't think he knowingly sold Emily snakes with parasites. But I DO absolutely believe the parasites came from his facility....either because the animals were NOT captive bred by him but came from some unknown source....or because his quarantine and cleanliness practices are SO lax that he allows his own captive bred babies to be exposed to whatever nastiness his imports and resell animals bring in. (OR...his breeders are already infected to begin with and are passing it on to their babies....as this member so eloquently pointed out. )

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

No, but it is your fault you didn't have them checked when you got them, or at least sooner than this.

That's a diaper load Erin. Not only did Ed Clark say his animals "as clean as you will find" but tapeworm eggs are not always or even shed shed. Emily could easily have had a negative fecal and still had a tapeworm.

Lets look at the facts, shall we?

• Emily acquires a group of '05 females from Ed Clark that are allegedly CBB by Ed Clark
• These animals do not thrive in her care
• These animals are kept separate from her collection
• Ed deals in CH imports
• Ed Clark is known not to have the best, if any, quarantine procedures (see the link to BP.net)
• Less than a year later one of these animals turns out to have a mature tapeworm
• Tapeworm is an extremely uncommon problem in small CBB collections of snakes

There are three likely possibilities as I see it.

1. Ed Clark sent Emily CH animals
2. The animals that were sent to Emily were truly CBB but were infected through cross contamination with CH animals due to Ed Clark's poor or absent quarantine technique
3. Tapeworms were acquired in an essentially closed collection

My money is on number 1 or number 2 based on the odds.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Not only did Ed Clark say his animals "as clean as you will find" but tapeworm eggs are not always or even shed shed.

should have read

Not only did Ed Clark say his animals "as clean as you will find" but tapeworm eggs are not always or even often shed.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why so many people are beating up Emily over this. She's not asking for anything from Ed, but is just trying to warn Ed's other customers that they might have parasite problems. I understand that 10 months have passed since acquiring the animals, but considering Ed's response:

Emily, thanks for the message. dont remember if the Balls that I sent you were captive bred or captive hatched. will look into it to find out and get back to you.

Apparently he never bothered to find out and get back to Emily which is why she decided to post this on the BOI. And remember this was AFTER he sold them to her as CB from his collection. Surely he must have records of what he produced. I know if someone accused me of selling them snakes with parasites, I would at LEAST have the parents tested and share the results of the tests.

But maybe this is another one of Ed's "Gifts that keep on giving".

Originally Posted by bigdogg

The ball pythons you got could be Captive Bred but from a WC parent. Still makes them Captive Bred and Born just have a little bit of wild still in them. John Rieger

John, John, John, surely you know that this is blatantly untrue? Do you really believe, after several conversations in chat and several others on TRR, that Captive Born and Bred can have ANYTHING to do with being imported?

CBB can ONLY be captively bred and born in CAPTIVITY. It can NOT be an egg laid from a wild caught mother and hatched in captivity, that is CB; captive born. There is a WORLD, literally, of difference between them.

I know you want to be helpful, but your youthful exuberance is telling again, much as it did the other night when one of your boas unexpectedly died but you didn't want to bother with a necropsy.

Some things really should be done and knowing your definitions is certainly one of them. Knowing why your animals die for no reason is another.

Please get your facts straight before you tell someone else they are wrong.

When you are so blatantly wrong it makes all of us who have tried so hard to teach you look and feel bad.

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

No, but it is your fault you didn't have them checked when you got them, or at least sooner than this.

Jim's right, this is a diaper load. Tell me, do you, as a matter of routine, have a fecal done immediately on every animal you receive?
If you do then congrats, you are among the probably 0.01% of people who do.
When it comes to CB animals, or at least purchased as CB, virtually no one has a fecal done right off the bat. If after a period of time conditions suggest a fecal is warranted, then it might be done, but rarely will you find a person that always has a fecal on every CB snake they purchase.

It's all too easy to say you should have had a fecal done in the first place once parasites have been discovered, but the fact is virtually no one does that at all. Hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by cookreptiles

in my opinion a heavy parasite load is far more serious than random pinworm eggs. random pinworms eggs can occur in well cared for cb animals but heavy parasite loads including coccidia normally do not unless those animals were kept in deplorable conditions and likely exposed to ch or wc animals.

i notified ed of the parasites and him to alert his customers of the possible parasites in their snakes. ed denied that the parasites came from his snakes. so i did what i said i was going to do and i posted here.

It seems to me that if mr. clark knows for certain that these parasites did not come from him that he must therefore also know EXACTLY which snakes he sold to Emily.

If he knows EXACTLY which snakes he sold to Emily then his prior statement about being unsure what snakes he traded her must be a lie, another lie.

mr. clark, would you care to explain how it is that you can know that the parasites did not come from any snake you had while at the same time being unable to recall exactly what snakes you sent to Emily?

It's been many hours since you last posted and someone as meticulous as you must surely have been able to locate all the pertinant documentation for this trade.

Please enlighten us.

i notified ed of the parasites and him to alert his customers of the possible parasites in their snakes. ed denied that the parasites came from his snakes. so i did what i said i was going to do and i posted here.

That is what did it for me. Well that and the fact that now he is not sure what he sent her.
From Nov to Sept I would be a little iffy on writing on the BOI, probably wouldn't have if not for the exception of that quote.

She did contact Ed. Thus giving HIM a chance to do the right thing and make this right. HIM saying gee I better go check my records now and see who else may have gotten animals that at time, check my own animals to make sure. Then perhaps start contacting people so they can check their animals,
now THAT would have been a good response back to her IMO.

Instead she got an ego lined not my fault not my problem type of response. The BOI is the most widely seen here and can get to enough people who have bought from Ed to now have their animals checked and, again IMO, it tells a story as to Ed's business practices and thought processes so should be posted here.