let's talk herp business

I usualy have my faunaclassified configured so that the threads are listed in order by the one with the most recent post appearing at the top of my screen. Today I reset that to have the posts isted in reverse chronological order with the most recent original post at the top, the next most recent 2nd and so on down the line.

Well when the posts were lined up this way - I got a bit of a surprise. I saw that only 13 new topics were generated under the General Herp Business forum since that infamous day of Sept. 5, 2002 when the question about whether or not Neil should have been banned was asked. That is a popular topic for viewings, it has almost two thousand viewings to date. It also has a bunch of replies. That is great because it is an interesting topic. The thing that surprises me though is that: there have only been those 13 other new discussion topics started in 12 days. I am just kind of hoping that some of us who have not posted a new thread recently will think up some more good stuff for conversation. I guess maybe there have been so few topics posted because plenty of you are busy at herp expos (is that a topic?).

Just to nip it in the bud: I am not critisizing, nor am I trolling for any negative replies, nor trying to start trouble either. I am trying to generate some new interesting topics to discuss about the herp biz. I tried but I guess my stuff was not that good so PLEASE come on lets get talking herp business.......I am ready to learn...... Thanks <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Hi Glen,
&nbsp;Let me bring up a subject that I have been thinking about. The subject is trades. I have made 2 trades within the last 2 months. The first one was going to involve us shipping the same day. I was shipping to a Southwestern state that was going into a heat wave. I saw a window of opportunity to ship my end, and I took it. The animals I sent arrived safely via next day air. The recipient e-mailed me saying that he wasn't sure we were shipping because of the question about the weather. I said fine, I explained seeing the forecast via the web, and realized that I had an opportunity to ship my animals out. I told him to wait out the heat wave, and ship his end of the deal when the weather was better. This was 6 weeks ago. I have been keeping track of the weather in his home city, and it has been hot. But I recently saw him advertising animals for sale, saying he could ship them out this week. I have been in communication with this person, and he still insists he is going to send me my animals. How long do you think I should wait before posting on the BOI?
&nbsp;Second trade is in the process of being shipped now. The person I am dealing with insisted that I ship first. This person appears on the up and up, and I received one positive review of him on the BOI. I am a small time hobbyist, that nobody knows. So I went ahead and shipped today, expecting his part of the deal to be shipped after he receives the animals tomorrow. Question: what if both persons doing a trade insist on the other person shipping first? I guess there won't be a trade. Is there some other mechanism to make sure that a trade is followed through on that gives a measure of security to both parties? I feel as though this second trade will go off without a hitch, but I have noticed several dealer web sites that state in their terms,&quot;You ship first on all trades-no exceptions&quot;. It seems that there must be a better way for the small hobbyist to make trades and feel more secure in them.
&nbsp;Just some things to think about, and maybe get some opinions on.

Thus far I haven't gotten the bad side of a trade...I did get the wrong animal shipped to me in one case, but the mistake was cleared up and I'm happy.

As for the people that state &quot;you ship first, no exceptions&quot;...well, I suppose they're trying to cover themselves so they don't get screwed. This is one area that the BOI helps out on...you can get info (sometimes) on someone before setting the trade in motion. If it's a known business, I don't get bad feelings from shipping first but I do prefer a same day shipping if possible.

Bryan,

I know you, you are not a nobody! I would do business with you in trade, and would give a good guy post on the BOI for you.

As for trades, I see the whole trade thing as a dilemma. I understand both sides - especially when both sides want the other guy to ship first. I am of the opinion that maybe this should be handled just like a sale. If you see an animal advertised for which you want to trade, then you should be the first to ship - just as if making payment on an animal you are buying. You pay before an animal you buy is sent to you, so you should ship your herp trade before the animal you are trading for is mailed to you. That is when you are acting in the capacity of the buyer so to speak because you are looking to get an animal you saw advertised. Anyone coming to you because they saw you had an animal advertised as up for trade would likewise have to ship to you first. That makes it similar to a purchase and seems fair to me.

Another solution would be to have monies placed into equity accounts (is that the right term). For example: you want to ship a $500 snake to someone for trade on another species of $500 snake. You set up an account where you pay $500 to be held as equity and the other guy does the same to a separate account. Your account is payable to the other guy, and his to you dependent on who screws whom if at all. If all goes well then each person gets his money refunded minus an account fee. If all does not go well, then the company that created the account settles the dispute or helps you settle it with the money held until it is settled, and settlement could be that the money is sent to the guy who got screwed. I have never used such an account but have heard of them. I may have the name wrong, but am fairly certain I have the idea of how they work correct.

As for when to post on the BOI, well that is a personal call. If the weather has been to hot on the other end and you are satisfied with that, then my opinion would be to wait until it is cooler. If on the other hand you are truly convinced that the shipment should have been made by now, I would give some notice of my intentions before posting - wait another few days and then post if I did not get a satisfactory reply. That is how I feel about it in general, but remember you know more about the deal than I or others do, so it would be your call.

Good luck, hope it works out. By the way, interesting topic, I imagine it will generate some further discussion. Thanks <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Best regards,
Glenn

Glenn,

you just said what Neil always use to say about who sends first but I think looking at it like you said it makes it a bit clearer. &nbsp;Think of it as using your snake instead of money to buy something.

it gets me that people who have no problems sending money before they receive a snake will balk at sending a snake.



Steve Schindler

I've never made a trade but it seems to me that the person offering the trade should ship first. I do have a question, are there no insulated boxes or cold packs in the Southwest? There are ways to ship safely during hot weather or cold weather for that matter. IMHO

Well speaking from experience .... I am one of those people who always says &quot; I won't ship first &quot; , because after being burned a couple of times unless I know you real well or you have a good reputation in the business or someone I know well has dealt with them and had good results, then I will never ship first. &nbsp;I know it if you get two people who don't know each other alot of the time they will both say that they won't ship first and I think it is a trust issue. &nbsp;I have walked away from a couple of sweet trades for this exact reason and who knows if I made the right decision, but at least I didn't get burned again. &nbsp;Its sad there are so many low lifes in this business who make it tough for good honest hard working people but this is what we have chosen, take the good with the bad I guess. &nbsp;By the way I am from florida and I ship with no bad results ... yet ( knock on wood ) , and if this person you are dealing with can't use an insulated box and a cool pack they are either cheap or quite possibly leading you on. &nbsp;If this person is afraid to ship because of the animals well being the they may also be a novice or a kid who doesn't know what they are doing. &nbsp;You may want to ask a few pertinent questions in regards to this. &nbsp;Also you could mention to this person if they are afraid to ship the animal because they are concerned about it arriving alive, then perhaps they should take it ta local herp store and have them ship it for them, this may wind up costing you a few more bucks in shipping but it may be the difference between you getting the animal soon or maybe not at all. &nbsp;What they are saying could very well be legitimate but if you give them all the options and they won't take any of them then you know they are ripping you off, but give them the benefit of the doubt for now.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles

Glenn....escrow.

Trades... Percentage wise trades seem to be more problematic than straight cash deals. In adition to miscommunication, shipping problems and the usual b.s., &nbsp;each person involved in the trade has the responsibility of a seller and the rights of a buyer. It would seem that many times no hard value is placed on individual animals in the trade. Animal quality is always a big question mark.

Say I trade a,b,c, for x,y,z. I receive x,y,z, and they are flawless. I'm happy. Joe receives a,b,c, and they are not quite up to his standards. Maybe he is happy with x but not y and z. Maybe one dies in shipping or is missing some toes. I try to make it right but we haven't placed a cash value on individual animals. Then there's always the problem of shipping them back. &nbsp;

Whenever I hear the word trade I always see the glass as half empty. Unless I can meet with an individual I personally wouldn't bother with them. I'm sure many trades go off without a hitch, but I get headaches thinking about them. I'd rather pay cash for an animal I'm interested in and receive cash for an animal I'm selling. Makes life much simpler.

Steve

I thought I would update everyone on the trades. One went fine, thanks again Marc &amp; Cyndi Johnson of Southern Style Reptiles.
spam_You can check out the continuing saga of the other one at the link below.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/cgi-bin....t=10909

About shipping first many people don't as they don't want to get screwesd but people can lie and have friends as ref's and family and or pay people to be a ref, so theres no real guarntee on anything unless you do a trade in person, i mean i still do trades and everything but i am a little cauious i have little money and it would take me a while to save that money again if i get screwed over so think twice buy once!!