Some good rules of thumb...

You know I was thinking about why this board was here.  It got me thinking about how much internet business I've done.  I've honestly bought 75% of what I own on the internet, from my computer to my shoes.  I've bought snakes, tires, cars, a utility trailer, cds, DVDs, games cloths and kids toys without being ripped off once.

Now I'm very opinionated and my mother would always say if 10 people don't agree with you do you think maybe you're the one that's wrong?  Good point, maybe I'll learn it someday, Anyway.

Why are some many of you being taken?  How does this board get so many posts if you're using some common sense?  Well, I think it's partly greed, you see a good deal and go for it and take the risk only to whin when you get burned by your own greed.  Also, partly being new to internet business and sadly havinh to learn the hard way.  Always educate yourself before doing anything and here are some rules to follow.

DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH ANYBODY IF!!!

1)They have an AOL, Hotmail, Yahoo or other free or hard to track ISP or e-Mail.

2)You don't have their home phone and address or a mailing address you can confirm.

3)They won't give you the names of people they've done business with that are well known.

4)They won't accept a check even if they wait till it clears.

5)Do some looking into the person, check their address and phone number as well as asking a lot of questions to get a feel for them.

Good luck and use your heads, maybe we can make this bored even more usless if we do a little probing before dealing with somebody.

Good luck all and let the spinning begin,
Adam Block

I have to disagree with number 1.  

I use a hotmail account...why?  I don't get spam on it, and its free.  I dont have a website set up yet, and I'm not going to pay for hosting space just so I can have a hard ISP email addy.  Now, if that's the ONLY contact info they will give you then I agree, you might want to ask yourself why they only give you a email addy.  But I don't think you should not do business with someone just because they want a free email addy.

Good point and something I didn't mention although I was thinking it.  I have a backup Hotmail account as well for the few times I've had to change ISPs.  This falls under the "use your heads" part of that post.  If they have a Yahoo account but give you there address, SSN and some DNA I think you're safe.  However, when you see that type of eMail a red flag should go up.  If the person is okay to deal with they will understand.

Thanks for the insight,
Adam Block

1.    I use a hotmail email address and alot of good people do. And I have what I believe great customer service.

4.    As to accepting personal checks. Most people do not because If it does go bad then they are charged by their bank. Plus they are out the sales they could of had. So that isn't any good eother.

2.    Please tell me how to confirm an address and phone number? As all my numbers are unlisted.

3.    Not everone has done business with someone well known and someone well known to you may not be to me.

The only thing I agree with you on is number 5.

Actually, I have to disagree with the yahoo account too.  I use that as my main email account, and it hasn't changed in roughly 4 years.  I also have to disagree with the check thing... I prefer not to take checks because of the time it takes for them to clear, plus the possibility of it bouncing... but will on special requests.  I just don't state it in my ad.

That having been said, the questions I use are:

1) Can they spell and use grammar correctly?

2)  Do they sound honest, or do they sound like they're trying to inflate their reputation and/or the value of the animal?

3) Do they communicate well, or atleast let you know when they might have communication problems?

4)  Do they follow through or do they change things at the last minute (for whatever excuse)?

5)  Are they upfront and helpful?  

6)  Can they provide pics of the animals in question, or atleast the animals' parents?

7)  Do they ship via FedEx, UPS, Airborne, or some other overnight company?  Or do they try to skimp on shipping to save cost?

8)  Do they offer some sort of guarantee on their animals, either on their post, their website, or via email?


Those are the main criteria I use to judge someone I'm considering buying from.  I'm sure everyone has their own.

-Kat Hall

1)  I, too, have to disagree with the hotmail, etc. account guideline, because hotmail is my main email account though I do occassionally use my work email addy.  However, if this type of account is the ONLY contact information, then I agree that you shouldn't do business with them.

2)  This one is iffy for me.  I do require a number and real address (i.e. no PO boxes) but it would be hard to confirm an address or phone number for someone like myself who has unlisted/unpublished numbers.  You can plug my phone number into any of the reverse lookup sites and get nothing.

3) &nbsp;This one may or may not apply. &nbsp;I've done limited online business (only Hiss-N-Things so far), otherwise I've bought from individuals or shows. &nbsp;Not much in the way I could provide for references at this point. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

4) &nbsp;I tend to agree with this one for the most part. &nbsp;I mostly pay by check or debit/credit card and don't mind someone waiting while the check clears. &nbsp;If they only want IMMEDIATE funds, I do tend to be wary.

5) &nbsp;I wholeheartedly agree with this one - ask around about them, talk to them, try to get a real feel for them before putting your neck....or money.... on the line. &nbsp;Call my a cynic, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. &nbsp;If I don't have a good feeling about someone, I won't buy from them even if they have exactly what I want. &nbsp;

At the very least, this thread has brought up some good ideas of what to look for in a seller (or buyer for that matter). &nbsp;It's a shame that we have to consider our options this way these days but people like Jesse Underhill &amp; company have made it a requirement of internet sales. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp; I guess times are changing and we have to try to keep up at the least and one step ahead if we can accomplish it.

Dianne

I have a hotmail account for back-up, and 90% of what I get on there is spam. Go figure. I think what makes a difference in this business/hobby, is that most persons you will deal with are not large established businesses, with a few exceptions. A lot of the persons you deal with are doing this as a hobby, and not as a living. You are also dealing with live animals, which are subject to a great variation in opinion as to quality. If you get a pair of shoes over the web, and you're not happy with them, you package them back up, and send them back UPS ground. You don't have that luxury with living creatures. Most of us would be very reluctant to put this additional stress on an animal unless a last resport.
&nbsp;I agree with most of these points, with special emphasis on grammer and spelling. If someone lacks typing skills, they should take a little longer to type their message. If they aren't sure of a spelling, they should use a spell check. With this being the computer age, there is no reason to see the spelling errors and poor grammar in some of the messages I have seen. If you can't communicate your message, you have already lost the battle.
&nbsp;Just some of my opinions, however humble they may be!

Well....
I think the most important thing would be
DO NOT do business with them if they had bad reviews on this board totally bad reviews.. now would anyone do business with Rob Carr , Brittany Latill, Joey Smith ect ect
you get the idea
Don't get me wrong now there are many people that have had bad reviews but have proved to be good guys[Evan my apologies] among others
#5 is right on tract, most good dealers will talk to you and even spend their own phone dime to wholeheartedly make you feel at ease about any inquiries about any animal you may want from them.
I understand there are a lot of gullible people out there that will pay top dollar for a het for albino anything w/out papers
and these gullible people have to be made aware of this board
There is allways someone that has delt with or had some form of contact with a 'dealer' that is selling that 'het'. Patience and perseverence will pay off, do NOT rush quickly into a deal without some feedback <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Well, I wouldn't do business with any of the following. &nbsp;If people are expected to do business with somebody and have no way to confirm who or where they are then we know why this board is here. &nbsp;While grammer is a clue and I think a good one the others are key to the options you have if you get burned. &nbsp;All people using free emails aren't bad but most bad sellers use free emails.

As for the posts in this board being a sign. &nbsp;I would guess if the board is filled with posts along the same thread it will give you some idea. &nbsp;However, I've been doing internet business for 6 years and have shipped 1000s of snakes, 100,000s of mice and some supplies without one post in here. &nbsp;Now, I'm WAY behind on everything and I get a post about not my quality but my lack of timely shipping. &nbsp;Myself, Derek Roberts, the Barkers and many other great breeders have gotten negitive posts in here and are good people.

I guess the only rule that applies across the board is #5

Thanks for reading,
Adam Block

I think you really missed the boat on this one. There are many other ways to assure you don't get ripped off, and in the event that someone tries they wind up unsuccessful.

I do not believe for a moment that whether or not someone uses a certain type of email account makes them more or less suspicious. I have utilized AOL as my ISP since I have had internet access. &nbsp;Now does that make me more suspect in your way of thinking? If it does you would be missing out on some great deals I have made with other people on animals and items I have sold or auctioned. Of course I have feedback on several auctions sites and anyone can check on me in the feedback forums - and that in essence is the purpose of the BOI on FaunaClassifieds.com. You seem to thin that if we follow your rules about not doing business with &nbsp;account holders of AOL, Hotmail etc. that you will not get ripped off. that is kind of short sighted. Some crooks are fairly sophisticated, and acutually use other types of accounts.

On the other hand I agree with number 2 100 percent! You can confirm anyone's telephone number and address if you are not in a great hurry. If you are buying an expensive consignment you should do just that if you are at all worried about being ripped off. HOw do you confirm an address or phone number: you call the number and make sure the person you are seeking answers - do it at least twice at different times without forewarning to him/her. To confirm an address send a correspondence to the person, and have them reply by phone or email to that correspondence. Of course the address could be a mail drop - in which case they would still receive your letter - but this is only one method to help assure an honest seller.

As to your third point, yes you should get references, and then you should check them, but just because I have only done business with Joe Schmoe - so what!

Accepting checks on the part of a seler is not a way to judge his/her honesty that is for sure. Anyone can accept a checkjust as they do a money order or paypal. You don't even need a bank account to cash a check - believe me I know. The reason most people do not accept checks is because it is one of the most common ways for a BUYER to rip off a seller. I only accept PayPAl or U.S. Postal Money orders. I like it to be a federal offense if I get ripped off by a bogus buyer.

As far as asking a lot of questions goes, I have been ripped off once by someone who had all the answers, used good grammar, was polite and seemed quite helpful. She also offered something I needed at a fair price. What I did not do at the time was check the BOI, and that was a shame because it would have saved me a few dollars. She was listed - I was lazy - I lost out. Now I follow my own rules.

I check people on the BOI or other feedback forums.

I ask for references and check them. If an expensive sale I ask for mailing addresses of the references and write to them with my inquiry.

I pay by credit card (preferred method), or by PayPal, or by postal M/O. That is it, and I much prefer straight forward credit card payments.

I try to buy from someone who has been around a while and has an established reputation, but sometimes what you want is only available from an obscure source. Then I rpoceed with caution.

I ask the right questions, and so forth.

I CHECK THE BOI AND OTHER FEEDBACK SOURCES. This is a must.

My .83 cents.

Best regards,

Glenn