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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
03-30-2017, 12:21 PM
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#151
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[quote=Fangthane;1989804]Although it's not be the be-all and end-all that Stahl would like us to believe, it definitely has to be factored in. I suggest you look into him a bit, then ask yourself how much you could possibly trust anything that doesn't come with concrete proof. [/b]
It does factor in, somewhat … I am not seeing concrete proof either way really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangthane
He agreed to ship 2-day - which, in itself, is pretty far from right - then later decided he wanted more money for a different shipping method. Although he states that the buyer agreed to his ex post facto stipulation, I'll remain skeptical until he posts screenshots to corroborate that claim. Thus far, he hasn't presented anything that would even suggest the buyer agreed to send more money.
That's more or less what this seems to hinge upon. IF the buyer agreed to the amended deal, then suddenly, inexplicably dropped all contact, after having directly expressed no issues with the situation, then the seller looks to be in much stronger position. Given how little sense it would make for the buyer to agree to send more money, then silently pull a disappearing act, I'm operating under the assumption that there must be more communications that we're not being shown. I do have to say that the seller's choice to grossly misrepresent the weather doesn't paint a very flattering picture of his intentions.
However, we only have Evan's word on all of this
I think he's made it pretty clear that he has no intentions of issuing a refund. He's even gone as far as [falsely] referring to the $445 payment as a "partial" payment, stating:
Apparently, he's the type of person who feels that the entire payment should be forfeit, if his belated demands aren't met. At the time the money was sent - as per their initial agreement - it was payment in full. Even if Sloan's wildly unlikely portrayal of events ends up being completely true, he's still not justified in keeping more than a reasonable housing/feeding fee - which I think would only be applicable if it can be shown that the buyer agreed to the amendment before ceasing communications. If the buyer didn't agree to it, that's the point at which he should have been due a full refund.
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I forgot about that statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangthane
This is one of those situations where we really need to hear from the other side. Frankly, Bob Sloan has repeatedly earned his utter lack of credibility; I can't trust that he'd be willing to provide anything that doesn't fit with his current narrative. Although probably not quite as bad as Sloan, Stahl's credibility has long been shot with me. We need someone to provide screenshots of the full communication stream.
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In truth, neither party commenting is all trustworthy.
Steve should be here, at least to clear up a few details. The fact he isn't, is disconcerting & suspicious.
I have a feeling Evan told him to cease communication & file charges.
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03-30-2017, 12:44 PM
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#152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake-Queen
Steve should be here, at least to clear up a few details. The fact he isn't, is disconcerting & suspicious.
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I agree. Who would do business with him now? If you have an issue with him, you can expect him to drop out of sight while releasing Evan the pit bull (my apologies to pit bulls, most are nicer than Evan has been in this thread).
In any case, in general, the first step in good problem solving is communication, and Steve Garvin gets an 'F'.
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03-30-2017, 01:27 PM
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#153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
If you have an issue with him, you can expect him to drop out of sight while releasing Evan the pit bull (my apologies to pit bulls, most are nicer than Evan has been in this thread).
In any case, in general, the first step in good problem solving is communication, and Steve Garvin gets an 'F'.
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While I never really bought into the philosophy that someone should fully clam up once they procure legal representation - that there's much strategic value in keeping actual facts hidden - there have been numerous times when you've gone out of your way to point out that the first thing someone's lawyer would have told them to do is stop replying. Now, when someone seems to be heeding that advice, you want to hold it against him.
Even Sloan's own screenshot shows that there was more to the communication stream than what he's chosen to reveal. With that in mind, we really don't know how hard Steve may have tried to get the situation resolved before he ceased communications. Considering that neither of the directly involved parties who've participated in this thread have much credibility, I'd say we really need some verifiable input from Steve before deciding just how much of the blame is his. If Sloan's hiding correspondence that shows Steve asking for a refund and being told to go himself, the subsequent drop in communication seems like it should make sense to anyone who believes that a lawyer should then do the rest of the talking.
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03-30-2017, 02:21 PM
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#154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangthane
the first thing someone's lawyer would have told them to do is stop replying. Now, when someone seems to be heeding that advice, you want to hold it against him.
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This was not your ordinary silence. We cannot ask questions of Steve to determine how credible his story is. Yet Evan is here trying to get a refund, when we do not know whether it was Steve's idea to get a refund, we do not know Steve's wishes for a solution at all so it does not seem quite ethical to have Steve cloaked in silence while Evan is taking his place and making decisions about what should be done.
And you are presuming there is an attorney, because Evan said so? Ordinarily, the state prosecutes criminal cases. Why would Steve hire an attorney for $200+ per hour (which is what many lawyers might charge for something like this) to handle a transaction issue for $400 worth of snakes, when Evan has repeatedly alleged it is being handled as a criminal issue?
It doesn't smell right.
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03-30-2017, 03:47 PM
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#155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
We cannot ask questions of Steve to determine how credible his story is.
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Which makes the denunciations in your previous post more than a little premature. There's entirely too much we don't know, so it's foolish to rush to smear his character based completely on silence. While Sloan's history doesn't tell the whole story of any given situation he's in, it seems the epitome of foolhardiness to presume any story he chooses to present makes up the whole truth, especially when he has no apparent interest in posting the communications that really get into the meat of the matter - notice how he stopped off right at the point where it seems the conflict was most likely to begin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
Yet Evan is here trying to get a refund, when we do not know whether it was Steve's idea to get a refund, we do not know Steve's wishes for a solution at all so it does not seem quite ethical to have Steve cloaked in silence while Evan is taking his place and making decisions about what should be done.
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Assuming they actually are business partners, the simple act of Evan trying to get resolution isn't in any way inherently wrong. Steve may very well prefer that he just shut up and let this play out in the background - which might explain why he doesn't seem to have access to any emails that prove his version of events - but being in a partnership would give him a real stake in this. He's repeatedly shown that he's not a reasonable person who'll take other people's thoughts into consideration, in lieu of the knee-jerk reactions that always seem to be his wont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
And you are presuming there is an attorney, because Evan said so?
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Just as you're apparently presuming that there isn't one, because Evan said that there is? So long as we're not privy to anything remotely resembling the whole story, it's way early to be spearheading a campaign against the one principal who we don't actually know to be dishonest. Maybe he is just a weak-willing person who removed himself from the situation out of sheer frustration and inability to effectively handle conflict; content to sic his attack dog on Sloan. Of course, there's also the very real possibility that he is pursuing this legally. I don't think there's nearly enough credible information to draw a very reliable inference from his current lack of participation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
Why would Steve hire an attorney for $200+ per hour (which is what many lawyers might charge for something like this) to handle a transaction issue for $400 worth of snakes, when Evan has repeatedly alleged it is being handled as a criminal issue?
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Apparently being a business owner, who I suspect may have some money to play with, he may well already have had an attorney on retainer. I'm guessing that all the talk of mail fraud is just Stahl spouting his usual mindless bluster to try to bluff his way into a conclusion.
Why would Steve possibly choose to spend more than the actual value of the snakes in legal fees? Might as well ask why Ty Park is willing to do the same so he can hold into a lizard that ultimately cost him nothing. While always interesting to know, even if just for posterity's sake, the "why" isn't terribly important. It may just be seen as a small price to pay for the smiting of one's enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
It doesn't smell right.
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I'd have to say that it's less odorous than the idea that a buyer would just randomly drop all communication without expressing dissatisfaction with the status quo. When given the choice between the pictures painted by two people with very questionable motives and character, I think that certain aspects of Stahl's are just more plausible than anything Sloan's put forth. He could easily have posted screenshots that would put any debate to rest, but he chose to be sidetracked by someone in the peanut gallery. Yet another context clue that seems to be pretty telling.
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03-30-2017, 10:15 PM
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#156
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Seriously
Fangthane you are really an total idiot. So far, Evan Styahl has not posted a single shred of evidence. When the deal was made with Steve - one of his first replies was "weather is spotty" for shipping. You think? Temps from the day he agreed to buy this pair of snakes on December 26,2016 has not made it above 40 degrees three days in a row where he wanted these shipped in Michigan - Traverse City to be exact. I just looked at the temps there this week and they are still well below what any dealer or intelligent reptile person would even consider shipping. You might try actually looking at the evidence I posted compared to what Stahl posted before you run off at the mouth. I will admit, Steve and I both made a mistake thinking it could ship third day. I made that mistake because I've never done it. I suspect Steve made it because he is not very experienced in reptiles. If in fact Evan was in on this deal, he should've known better. And while there were a number of times I could have shipped from either Del Rio or Weslaco, with three days and night time temps in Michigan rarely going above 20F, I was not going to ship. I told Steve temps were an issue and he thanked for my patience and consideration. Not one time did Steve ever have a bad comment to say to me and I had no idea there was an issue until I got a nasty message from Evan Stahl. The last word I had from Steve was he was sending $60 for overnight shipping and okayed me to ship no matter the temps. Had I received the $60 today when I went to town to check my mail, I'd have shipped to him on Monday, but I received nothing from him. In addition, I called when Snake Queen posted Steve's contact and sent him an email the same day. So far....crickets chirping......I'm not paying the additional shipping because Steve agreed to it and did not express any type of issue at the time and I'm not giving a refund on this pair of snakes until I hear from Steve - not Evan Stahl cause he can kiss me where the sun don't shine! Nothing else I can do until I hear from Steve. If he is really stupid enough to go to an attorney or the USPS, that is fine with me because I have ALL of the FB messages and not once did he make or raise any complaint. The temps where he was and the fact that UPS does not accept live animals with third day shipping is also a factor. I've already talked to an attorney that I guide hunts for every year and he assured me there is no basis for any civil or criminal case based on the facts he has seen on my FB page. Until Steve grows a set and cuts the cord from Evan, I will not and really cannot do anything. I have proven my case and Evan has done nothing but what a coward like him always does, post lies and hide behind his mommy or his computer. If Evan reads this - Tell Steve send the money or KMA!
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03-30-2017, 10:51 PM
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#157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch
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Can't help pointing out that you're still avoiding posting the rest of the correspondence. One of Steve's first replies after purchase doesn't have nearly the importance of what he said in the sections of the correspondence that you continue to avoid showing. What you've chosen to show doesn't support your contentions nearly as much as you seem to believe. Looking at your evidence is what's leading to my doubts about you. He said to go ahead and ship them and he'll accept responsibility; you still haven't. That's all that your evidence shows. Seems like what comes after the conversation you did deign to show may be pretty damn important in either proving your case, or showing you to be the degenerate that everyone says you are.
Your apparent disdain for Stahl is kinda funny, considering that so many aspects of your respective personalities are so startlingly similar - you could easily be long-lost brothers. Maybe you really believe that flapping your virtual gums to call me an idiot will divert attention from what you seem to be actively avoiding. I doubt it'll be as successful as you'd like to believe, but good luck with that.
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03-31-2017, 03:15 PM
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#158
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Nothing more to post
There were no "emails" only messages on my FB page. I posted all of the contact except the message I sent after Evan sent me a FB message and I did not post that because of the language I used against Stahl and did not want any further points for profanity or other violations. At the end of the day - you are an idiot because everything I posted is legit and nothing Stahl posted has any merit other then his word and by your own admission - he's a liar too, so clearly you are the moron, not me! and still no word from Steve Garvin after both phone calls and emails.....
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03-31-2017, 03:50 PM
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#159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch
I posted all of the contact except the message I sent after Evan sent me a FB message....
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Even without delving too deeply into things, that's clearly not true. Your screenshot from post 98 includes the top part of a message that can't be read. Considering how much room you had to work with on that screen, I'm wondering if it may be meaningful that you cut it off just where you did. Anyway, since this statement that Steve supposedly made is nowhere in the screenshots you've chosen to present, I guess I have no choice but to take that as a tacit admission that the following statement is a lie:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch
Last word I had from Steve was he was sending the money for overnight.
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Let me guess, this conveniently happened over the phone, right? Much like Stahl, the more worked up you get, the more it tells me I'm onto something that makes you desperately want to deflect by lashing out. On some level, you do realize how pitifully transparent you are, don't you?
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03-31-2017, 04:01 PM
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#160
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Anyone using derogatory name-calling is ill-advised to continue. That it has been going on at all is effectively too long. If you cannot control yourself, do not post. If you want to continue to post, you can craft messages without the abusive word selections.
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