Force Feed or Try Live?

I am having a big problem with my male normal. He hasnt eaten anything since 12/11 and his weight loss is now dangerous. I am going to try assist feeding tonight, but if that doesnt take, I will need to try something more drastic. I know that force feeding is extremely stressful, but he has never eaten live and he is 2 years old. I dont know which would be more risky, trying to give him live, or force feeding. Here is the some information to go on.

First of all, here is information from my iherp log to show you his decline.

02/02
Refused Food 1Refused (1) Rat -Small F/T 02/02
Weight 1815g 01/30
Weight 1833g 01/16
Weight 0860g 12/28
Refused Food 1Refused (1) Rat - Small 12/28
Weight 0865g 12/24
Shed 1Shed Completed 12/24
Regurge 1Regurgitated (1) Rat - Small F/T 12/20
Refused Food 1Refused Food 12/11
Feeding 1(1) Rat - Small F/T 11/26
Feeding 1(1) Rat - Small F/T 11/19
Feeding 1(1) Rat - Small F/T 11/11
Feeding 1(1) Rat - Small F/T 11/04
Weight 0888g
As you can see the two most recent weights are very concerning. In only 3 days he has lost 15g. This is why I need to act now. As I said, I am going to attempt assist feeding tonight, but if that does not work, I need to know where to go from there.

Beau is very timid. He gets scared sometimes even with his dead food if you move it too fast twards him. That with the fact that he has never had live before make if very scary to even consider. If I did try it, I would have to use nothing bigger than fuzzies to lessen the chance of him getting hurt. I know its not the ideal size for him, but at least he would be eating something.

On the other hand, there is force feeding, which for one, I have never done, and two, I know is very stressful.

So, I need some help making this decision. If the assist feeding does not work, what should I try next?

sorry it looks like the chart got messed up during posting.. here it is again....

02/02 Refused Food 1 small F/T Rat
02/02 Weight 815g
1/30 Weight 833g
1/16 Weight 860g
12/28 Refused Food 1 small F/T Rat
12/28 Weight 865g
12/24 Shed
12/24 Regurgitated Food 1 small F/T Rat
12/20 Refused Food 1 small F/T Rat
12/11 Feeding 1 small F/T Rat
11/26 Feeding 1 small F/T Rat
11/19 Feeding 1 small F/T Rat
11/11 Feeding 1 small F/T Rat
11/04 Weight 888g

Amanda,

I have had snakes fast for several months- and yes they did lose weight, but I am not sure what people would consider the drastic weight.. the snake lost 72 grams...

however, I see a regurg- so I would be thankful your snake did not eat when you offered food- if a snake regurges, you need to give the snake time to build up its stomache acids, or if the snake does eat- its just going to regurg again. Regurging is hard on their system, and if they dont have the stomache acid build up, they won't be able to digest the food, and ergo, it expels it. However, its been long enough- I just wanted to share my opinion since I see you offered food 4 days after a rewgurg.

About the eating- what gram is your small rat? In my experience, if I feed larger rodents for along time without giving them smaller ones, they can fill up, and just not eat- especially with the males. I usually pawn the smaller sized meals off on them.

In all honesty, I would try live before even assist feeding. My males I had that fasted would start back up quicker on live, and assist feeding can be stressful on the snake ( force feeding could be worse) I only have experience assist feedign a baby, and can't imagine doing it on an adult. There was a few times I was thinking something had to be done for the one male, but he always resumed eating on his last chance.

I had a snake that took f/t all its life, but then suddenly stopped eating, and tried everything, but she would only take live. The snakes still know their instincts. You can give the snake a smaller then usual rat for you to feed comfortable with- trust me, I understand how you feel and what you are saying- i hate feeding live so its just more worrisome for the 2% of snakes i have that wont take f/t. But IMHO, I would try live before assist/force feeding....

good luck

Thank you for your reply. I am unsure if the rat was actually regurgitated. My husband fed him that night and he did not stay up to see it go down. It is possible that he never actually ate it at all, but I put down regurgitated to show that he did strike and constrict and at least start eating.

As far as the trying live. For me I am not happy about it at all as Ive had rats as pets before, but I will put my feelings aside to save my boy. I am just worried about him getting hurt, hence why I would try a young rat to lessen that chance. I will wait for at least a couple more replies, but if the consensus is that I should just try live first, then I will do that. Hopefully I can find an appropriate size live rat to use. The pet stores around here dont have live feeder bins, so live rats are small-large size. I will ask the staff if they have anything smaller outback though.

oh, and about the size of the rats I feed. I am not sure exactly. However as far as feeding smaller, I actually tried that last night. Our newest addition did not take his fuzzy, so I figured I would offer it to Beau. I figured it couldnt hurt. He did show a little interest in it. Following it around and sniffing more than with the small rat we offered him, but he never bothered to strike. Tonight was the second time we (my husband and I) spent over an hour trying to get him to eat. We stop to warm up the rat in warm water again while giving Beau a break when it gets cold. Beau has always taken some time to eat. Typically between 5-10 minutes, but he has never refused food before this.

*last night, not tonight. sorry. I wish I could edit posts. lol

This is perfectly normal. 815g male during breeding season is off food and you are concerned about 50g weight loss? I've had snakes take 150g bowel movements and go off feed for nearly 12 months. Force feeding is not necessary and will only cause added stress. You would know if a rat was regurged, sounds like he just didn't want to eat it... That's normal for a male who wants to breed. Even slight ambient temperature drops can cause his mood to change. If you are really that concerned drop in a live mouse.... Your BP is just fine.. Force feed in a year from now... In the meantime, dont even stress about it. This is completely normal.

3 months is no bid deal even 6,feed live he will probely eat live .

Originally Posted by MajorLeagueReptiles

This is perfectly normal. 815g male during breeding season is off food and you are concerned about 50g weight loss? ......

Actually it is more than 50g. He was 888g in november. I didnt weigh him again until almost 2 months later when he stopped eating so I am guessing he weighed a bit more than that before he started his decline. Either way his loss was very gradual until recently when he lost 15 grams in just 3 days. Another 15 grams and he will have lost 10%. From what I read 10-15% weight loss is the danger zone. If he continues at this rate, (i.e. another 15g in just 3 days) then it wont be long before he is in trouble.

I know its quite normal for some balls to go off feed, which is why I havent bothered to ask for any advice or get worried until now. I have just been keeping track of his weight to make sure he stayed in the save zone and continuing to offer food every week.

Anyways, thanks for the reply. I am going to try to find a live rat fuzzy this weekend to offer him.

While in some cases 10-15% Weight loss can be potentially a problem, don't always believe everything you read. Ive learned with ball pythons there is a large number of variability. I have a male emperor pinstripe, weighed 630g at the beginning of the breeding season. He now weights 565g and is breeding about 7 females like a champ. That's 10%+ weight loss... Am I concerned, no. His weight has been constant for a while now. He will probably breed and be off feed for 3-4 more months... Another example, let's take a 1600g female who laid for me last year and after she was a merely 860g... I don't even think she began feeding right away but she came around and is about 2000g now and gonna hopefully lay again this year. It's all gooood.