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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
05-07-2012, 01:37 PM
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#151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexPredatorBoids
Beyond these comments, I'm not going to waste any more time on someone who's not willing/able to be rational or logical.
If the Potion was actively breeding females while in Xavier's collection, then it's not even remotely misrepresenting it to call it a "breeder". Pretty basic stuff, there.
It's not THAT Brandon/Tom chose to breed it, it's WHEN, that is the crux of this issue. If they had practiced quarantine procedures, or even provided a reasonable acclimation period, the situation would likely be very different at this point. If they had followed sensible protocols, and the Potion still died, they might have had a leg to stand on, in demanding reimbursement.
However, they did not do this. As it stands, they chose a course of action that shows a blatant disregard for the Potion's well-being, as well as for their entire collection. If you're willing to take such reckless risks, you better be willing to accept responsibility for the consequences, when they backfire in your face.
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I am not even remotely inclined to suggest that the seller offer any kind of recompense. The buyer threatened the seller with a Bad BOI, he showed a complete disregard for the health of both the animals being used as breeders (females) and the male he received; and he didn't have possession of the animal when it was breeding and died.
While he may or may not produce clutches from the pairings already done...if the emotional appeal to "give" them something is successful, then they will have made out like bandits.
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05-07-2012, 01:52 PM
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#152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deborahbroadus
While he may or may not produce clutches from the pairings already done...if the emotional appeal to "give" them something is successful, then they will have made out like bandits.
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And may set an unfortunate precedent that if one has a big enough tantrum, whines loud enough, long enough, and includes the words 'customer service', one can buffalo the other party into making an unwarranted financial sacrifice.
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05-07-2012, 06:50 PM
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#153
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I have never had an animal with ulcers so I don't have any experience with them. That being said, if they (Brandon/Tom) didn't recognize the snake was sick, how was Xavier supposed to know? On FB, Brandon made a statement that the snake was fed before being shipped but I thought the vet said his stomach was empty. Did it have a bowel movement, and if so was it normal? Just a couple of questions that I have been wondering about.
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05-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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#154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier
On Apr 19, 2012 12:44 PM, "Xavier Springer" <xavier.springer@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey,
I'm working 5pm - 5am this week and just got up @ noon. My wife said I missed your call while I was sleeping. Just saw the vids, thanks for sending them. Let me know when the biopsy results come back.
Oh you guys were talking about it feeding, his last feeding dates were 3-08, 3-15, 3-20, & 3-24.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier
The snake had its last meal 12 days prior to being shipped
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It was shipped on 4/6 while it's last feeding was 3/24. So the statement Brandon made on FB regarding the snake being shipped with food inside it appears to be another piece of self-serving fiction. The necropsy was nearly 4 weeks after the last meal, as it apparently never ate after leaving Xavier's care, so it's not surprising that the vet would find an empty stomach. I don't recall seeing any reference to bowel movements.
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05-07-2012, 07:35 PM
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#155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman
I have never had an animal with ulcers so I don't have any experience with them. That being said, if they (Brandon/Tom) didn't recognize the snake was sick, how was Xavier supposed to know? On FB, Brandon made a statement that the snake was fed before being shipped but I thought the vet said his stomach was empty. Did it have a bowel movement, and if so was it normal? Just a couple of questions that I have been wondering about.
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Yes the snake had two bowel movements. It had one in the snake bag that snake was shipped to me in at the air port. When I first open the box at delta that was the first thing I notice the bag was wet and smelled bad. It just looked like normal snake waste. If you go back to the dead snake pic on page one you will see it had another bowel movement if you look on the sides of the tub.
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05-07-2012, 07:47 PM
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#156
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Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
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05-07-2012, 07:56 PM
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#157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReptileGeek181
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille
And may set an unfortunate precedent that if one has a big enough tantrum, whines loud enough, long enough, and includes the words 'customer service', one can buffalo the other party into making an unwarranted financial sacrifice.
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The buffaloes are out in force I see.
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05-07-2012, 08:01 PM
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#158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReptileGeek181
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
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Rectify what exactly?
Show me proof the ulcers were pre-existing and the Salmonella was contracted 12-72 hours (the window of infection and subsequent "activiation" as it were) in Xavier's care. The period of time Salmonella is known to kill without treatment following exposure and infection is four to seven days. Obviously, it can happen very quickly. Ulcers are hard to pinpoint on time of flaring and can only be speculated upon.
Therefore, you cannot say Xavier is definitely to blame, because it is impossible to pinpoint.
Here's what can be said:
When you fail to take the proper precautions to follow a line of deductive reasoning (i.e. refusing to quarantine an animal and taking it from a stressful situation of being shipped to another stressful situation of co-habitating with another animal whether it actually bred it or not), then you take all liability of the situation upon yourself. There was no effort on Brandon or his breeding partner (whatever he is) part to ensure that they were not liable if a snake that appeared outwardly healthy suddenly died.
Just to clarify, that is part of the point of a quarantine. You assume all animals, no matter where they come from, have a risk of contaminating your collection with something else or dying of a pre-existing condition.
If you refuse to do this simple thing then if the animal dies in your care, you must assume liability because you forced a change in the variables. How does anyone know Xavier is more at fault than they are for thrusting a stressful situation upon the very young ball python?
Need I point out again he was a developing juvenile and not an established adult?
What part of "stress can and does kill reptiles" do you not understand? Are you ignorant to this fact? If you are, it is fine, but anyone with even basic knowledge of these animals will tell you that stress can cause an animal to go belly up quickly especially with a compromised immune system complicated by the presence of a potentially lethal bacterial infection which had the perfect gateway to infiltrate the snakes system and overtake it.
They knowingly and thoughtlessly put the snake at risk. It is their fault he died because they put the control of the situation in their hands, period.
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05-07-2012, 08:04 PM
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#159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReptileGeek181
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
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Also, you know who looks greedy?
Someone who throws a male into a tub with a female to breed the day he pulls it out of a shipping box.
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05-07-2012, 08:06 PM
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#160
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Thank god I'm not in the breeding snakes for money business, with the business motto you guys keep how do you sleep at night?
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