Al Brown/ Liar

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

He didn't get what he ASKED for. He asked for LINEAGE papers. WE ALL (or most) agree that LINEAGE is more than listing the first set of parents.

He did get what he asked for. There were no specifics requested other than proof of lineage, which is completely subjective with no formal registry. There is no across the board agreement of what this should be. MOST here disagree with you, so I am not sure how you can say all or most believe the way you do about necessary proof of lineage. He received something viable for this industry, and then complained that it was not enough AND not speedy enough.

Al Brown is no liar. Some people just can not be pleased. His customer was one of those. Some just do not know when to leave well enough alone. This thread should have been dead two pages in. Discussion of proper proof of lineage should be in the discussion forums.

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

He did get what he asked for. There were no specifics requested other than proof of lineage, which is completely subjective with no formal registry. There is no across the board agreement of what this should be. MOST here disagree with you, so I am not sure how you can say all or most believe the way you do about necessary proof of lineage. He received something viable for this industry, and then complained that it was not enough AND not speedy enough.

Al Brown is no liar. Some people just can not be pleased. His customer was one of those. Some just do not know when to leave well enough alone. This thread should have been dead two pages in. Discussion of proper proof of lineage should be in the discussion forums.

I called no one a liar, I know neither of the people involved.

Proof of lineage is what? Pictures that can be traced to 3 generations? Picture of breeder and sire? (imo, pictures of breeder and sire are pictures of parents, not lineage.) and MOST here have said the same thing..that "normally" we (breeders) get pictures of parent and sire... establishing that the fact that he's asking for Lineage means that the document that he is requesting is an entirely different document.

I called it as I (myself) see it. The fact that some (more than one) also said something to the effect that "LINEAGE" normally includes more than just the Breeder and Sire is what drew me to my conclusion.

if proof of lineage is asked (which is a good thing to request), it is generally accepted that lineage in the case of the snake world, refers to pics/paperwork of the parents, unless specifically agreed by the buyer and seller to go beyond that. i would love to get and give 5 generations of genetics/lineage when i buy and sell an animal, but it is not what is done and what is normal. the snake world (at least at this time) is not that detailed and specific to have that kind of paperwork readily available. and snakes are bought/sold/traded and such so frequently in this hobby, its nearly impossible to provide that crazy of 3rd generations and more of lineage

The title of the thread says Al is a liar. He is not. He made a mistake: selling to someone who would smear his name over a petty matter that was NOT worth this thread. A little patience and understanding would have prevented it.

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

Although there is some truth to what you say, Chris Johnson being a prime example, he still had a stellar reputation, and did many transactions based on his REPUTATION as a good guy to deal with. He flipped out and pulled an incredible scam. Who knows why. But until he actually did something wrong, his reputation is where it was at. Now that reputation is squat.

Until Al does something shady, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Please don't mistake me for someone who is bashing, or even doubts, Al's rep. I simply believe that reps start somewhere. Al was a newbie once too. A good rep starts from day one,yes? If the OP seems demanding to you guys, so be it. I like those standards and would do business with him in a second. The smart ones here will thank him one day. While I don't condone the abrasiveness of the opening post, I appreciate the passion.

Originally Posted by reticguy76

if proof of lineage is asked (which is a good thing to request), it is generally accepted that lineage in the case of the snake world, refers to pics/paperwork of the parents, unless specifically agreed by the buyer and seller to go beyond that. i would love to get and give 5 generations of genetics/lineage when i buy and sell an animal, but it is not what is done and what is normal. the snake world (at least at this time) is not that detailed and specific to have that kind of paperwork readily available. and snakes are bought/sold/traded and such so frequently in this hobby, its nearly impossible to provide that crazy of 3rd generations and more of lineage

And YET, I have purchased from such a one. without requesting how many LINEAGES to go (3 generations at least to my recollection).

I was specifically looking for a lineage from from any Spider genes (at that time).

MY goodness!!! I did not type this! (blushes)...

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

And YET, I have purchased from such a an excellent breeder and record-keeper without even requesting how many LINEAGES to go he gave me enough to make a decision (3 generations at least to my recollection).

I was specifically looking for a lineage that was free from any Spider genes (at that time).

the petty back and forths (and name-calling) needs to stop now.

I think a forum topic in the discussion forums regarding lineage paperwork would be good but does not belong in this thread.

What matters at this point?
Rich, Al, are you in communication? Is Al sending Rich a revised copy of the genetics paperwork that is signed? What other specific information is Rich looking for? Is Al able to provide it?

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

the petty back and forths (and name-calling) needs to stop now.

I think a forum topic in the discussion forums regarding lineage paperwork would be good but does not belong in this thread.

What matters at this point?
Rich, Al, are you in communication? Is Al sending Rich a revised copy of the genetics paperwork that is signed? What other specific information is Rich looking for? Is Al able to provide it?

Exactly! It's a simple fix.

*I am not focusing on the abrasiveness or wrongness of the existence of the thread....as the mods have said time and again...it's pointless as the thread is here to stay, so finding a quick, easy solution seems to be the best option at this point.

I can not beleive this thread is still going. This would have been a great situation for Al to go above and beyond industry standards and just give the OP a signed lineage. I dont understand why 12 pages has gone by and this guy doesnt have any papers that are signed. That is a easy fix, sign a paper, spend 44 cents and show great customer service.
Even if having signed paperwork is not a standard it is what the customer wants, now they dont always get exactly what they want, but this was a easy chance to go above and beyond.