Iinferital supers?

I've seen ads for messed up Sharp's when I was looking for a boy to prove out the poss het girl I have. Seen a couple one eyed albinos, a formed eye but blind & a one eyed sunglow. No where near as many as for kahl's though. I checked my notes but when I put them down as people to avoid I didn't specify the strain.

I figured the Sharp keepers were better at culling. They do have the financial motivation for it that a lot of the kahl breeders/keepers don't. As long as people think the Sharp line doesn't have the issue it will continue to gain popularity & be viewed as the safe strain.

I'm not smack talking people who work with kahl's line either. I do & that's why I'm hoping the girl doesn't prove out. Gonna mess up my plans if she does.

A pessimistic note on the super jungle, I hope it really is a super & not just a high expression. I mean think about it, with having been breed before isn't it still just speculation that they are supers?

I'll hunt back down the info I found on Super Mots sometime this week. It was odd as hell, but came from people that have decent reputations.

All four of these gene's are examples of not enough real work being down on a morph before it's dumped in the market. You would think people would care about producing Healthy animals. The jungle & motleys are really pathetic, they're not recessive. There isn't the slightest legit excuse for them to have been inbred so badly.

A pessimistic note on the super jungle, I hope it really is a super & not just a high expression. I mean think about it, with having been breed before isn't it still just speculation that they are supers?

Its definitely a super jungle. Super jungles all have very distinct eyes. There is no mistaking a super jungle.

Yeah they have caramel like orange eyes, very distinct. But i can name you 3 breeders off the top of my head that have produced eyeless sharp sunglows (of coarse i wont do that) but trust me, look around for awhile or talk to the sharp breeders and you'll find plenty of eyeless.

Super Motleys die before they reach maturity. If you look around at all of the known motley breeders who have produced super motleys, you will not find a single picture of a 10 pound or heavier adult. I would be surprised if they ever hit 5 pounds. Super motleys start out good, they eat well and start to grow. At somewhere around 18 months and even sooner they start to decline. They eat less and develope symptoms that mimick IBD. I am not saying they have IBD, but they develope symptoms just like IBD, and then they die.

There is something about super motleys that just doesn't line up properly. Their head is shaped differently, their scales are differant, they look dehydrated when they are born, they just aren't right. I have heard of a super motley central american male that was producing sperm plugs, but I don't know if it ever bred anything.

The fact that super motleys die has absolutly nothing to do with inbreeding. All super motley siblings go on to reach maturity and do just fine, this includes the normal motleys and the normal boas in the same litter.

Producing super motleys is a waiste of life. They don't live and never will. A lot of the big name breeders know this and they still won't speak openly about it. There would be a lot of angry people who paid big bucks or traded a lot of stuff to get one.

I have a pair of motleys and I will never breed them together.

This subject has been talked about on a bunch of forums on other sites. I think super motleys are totally worthless. With all of the discussions that have taken place on this subject, there are actually some people still trying to produce them. I had someone offer me a super motley last year for 50 bucks and I said no thanks, true story. You couldn't give me a super motley.

So, if you are smart you will stay away from super motleys. Supers motleys are geneticaly flawed and will never be right, no matter how outcrossed. Motleys are great animals, you will enjoy them, just don't get a super motley.

As for super jungles, there is a gravid female from what I understand. It has not given birth yet, so don't count your chickens before they hatch, or in this case, don't count your boas before they are born. I am not critisizing here, I am only being real. Until they are born, then a super jungle has not produced, being gravid, and producing live babies is not the same.

I have heard that a super jungle has produced, but I can't say for sure where I heard it, so I don't know.

Both albino strains have proven eye defects. I think you see it more in the Kahl strain because there is a lot more of them out there. The Kahl albinos have now been outcrossed so much, people are now having good success breeding an albino to albino,or sunglow to albino with good results.

With any animal, if after a few years, you don't see pictures of adults, it should throw up a red flag. You all know how people love showing off their animals in the forums, so if something isn't showing up after a while, ask yourself why.

Good Post

Good post Brian. I don't know much about the super jugles but what you said about the super mots is right on. You can produce them, and they may actually be fertile, but at 18 months they just go downhill. Neurological problems, weak bone development..... might be an issue with calcium?? Either way just not worth trying to produce.

But the Motley gene is still pretty wicked in the heterozygous form. Treat it like a dominant gene and have fun with it. Producing Sunglow Mots is a nice goal to have in life....

saw this at the local reptile show on Saturday...

That's a crying shame. I guess people didn't learn from all the bad Kahl Albino x Albino breedings. Now the Sharp's are coming out the same, and likely the same cause too.

People want to get into it for the money, but common sense says if you're producing deformed neonates, there just ain't gonna be a lot of money to be made like that. Is it really worth it to spend all your money on a project, then not take your time and do it right, only to end up with results like that?

What's even more shameful is to see it for sale. Sell out your reputation for a mere $375. Yeah, that'll get you far in life.

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

What's even more shameful is to see it for sale. Sell out your reputation for a mere $375. Yeah, that'll get you far in life.

I was really sad when I saw it for sale at the show. If someone won't cull this defect and wants to sell their deformed snakes as a 'pet only' to someone they trust won't beed it, fine but to offer to the general public (at such a low price) just didn't seem very ethical to me.

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I was really sad when I saw it for sale at the show. If someone won't cull this defect and wants to sell their deformed snakes as a 'pet only' to someone they trust won't beed it, fine but to offer to the general public (at such a low price) just didn't seem very ethical to me.