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Old 04-13-2017, 04:25 PM   #1461
Milesd_87
Read post one, where there is a screen shot of him saying he did NOT produce any blues only purples...
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:31 PM   #1462
Karma Kritters
A little off topic but it does seem to have relevance. I am just going off of my memory from years ago working with Tegus. If I remember correctly there was only a very small group of Blue Tegus that came in. Ron St.Piere would really be able to feel in the info. With a already tiny gene pool on the normal blues and with a very small number of original albinos I believe the gene pool is going to be the same no matter who the breeder is.
The fact that he would not divulge his source is not unusual. Most breeders will not tell customers where extra stock comes from. I supply several other breeders with stock myself. I would be very upset if I had sold animals to a dealer and he then told his customer who I was. Some of us would rather have the time to spend with our animals rather than talking with someone who has already purchased elsewhere.
I do feel Ty is handling this situation wrong to be clear. I just can't see where the genetics are likely to make any difference as long as they have been kept pure.
Sam
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:33 PM   #1463
Sugarhedgie
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoTortoise View Post
Yes the fact is, he did not have to tell op that it was a purple. All he had to do was tell her it was an albino blue tegu, just like what the raffle prize is and it was bred by him. I am pretty sure, his t+ and t minus tegus can all be called albino blue tegus. There is a discussion about it just a few post up.

You are just like talking to a brick wall !!!
You are wrong
There is a difference.
The raffle photo on the fb raffle pictures an "albino blue , T-"
An "albino blue, T-" looks much different, than an "albino purple, T+"

For you to justify your thinking by saying that "he didn't have to tell the op that it was a purple" is just as absurd as you saying "he didn't say it would be EXACTLY like the photo" when ty said "you will get an albino like the one in the photo"

You didn't mention that just a few messages later he also said "it will grow up to look just like the photo" (JUST = EXACTLY IMO)
The photo was a t- "albino blue". He didn't produce any and later admitted that he couldn't even get any

DEFLECTION !!!

If you ever enter a raffle for something AND then WIN that "something" remember that you don't think that it has to be that "something" it can be whatever.

Carry on turtle man.....
Attached Images
   
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:36 PM   #1464
Chris Kennard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma Kritters View Post
A little off topic but it does seem to have relevance. I am just going off of my memory from years ago working with Tegus. If I remember correctly there was only a very small group of Blue Tegus that came in. Ron St.Piere would really be able to feel in the info. With a already tiny gene pool on the normal blues and with a very small number of original albinos I believe the gene pool is going to be the same no matter who the breeder is.
The fact that he would not divulge his source is not unusual. Most breeders will not tell customers where extra stock comes from. I supply several other breeders with stock myself. I would be very upset if I had sold animals to a dealer and he then told his customer who I was. Some of us would rather have the time to spend with our animals rather than talking with someone who has already purchased elsewhere.
I do feel Ty is handling this situation wrong to be clear. I just can't see where the genetics are likely to make any difference as long as they have been kept pure.
Sam
She trusted Ty's stock, which if I'm not mistaken, is why she spent the money on the raffle. He said he didn't produce any. He was going to get the OP's tegu from an unknown source. That was unacceptable to her as it would have been to me.
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:37 PM   #1465
Sugarhedgie
Well the raffle wasn't for something "gotten" it was for a tegu produced by ty.
I won't buy animals from certain breeders and I like to know where my animals are coming from

As far as I know. Ty has NEVER "raffled" off anything but his own stock


Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma Kritters View Post
A little off topic but it does seem to have relevance. I am just going off of my memory from years ago working with Tegus. If I remember correctly there was only a very small group of Blue Tegus that came in. Ron St.Piere would really be able to feel in the info. With a already tiny gene pool on the normal blues and with a very small number of original albinos I believe the gene pool is going to be the same no matter who the breeder is.
The fact that he would not divulge his source is not unusual. Most breeders will not tell customers where extra stock comes from. I supply several other breeders with stock myself. I would be very upset if I had sold animals to a dealer and he then told his customer who I was. Some of us would rather have the time to spend with our animals rather than talking with someone who has already purchased elsewhere.
I do feel Ty is handling this situation wrong to be clear. I just can't see where the genetics are likely to make any difference as long as they have been kept pure.
Sam
 
Old 04-13-2017, 05:44 PM   #1466
Sugarhedgie
Example. This didn't come from a Joe shmo. It came from a reputable breeder and I have a wait list for his future babies
Attached Images
 
 
Old 04-14-2017, 12:07 PM   #1467
FresnoTortoise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kennard View Post
She trusted Ty's stock, which if I'm not mistaken, is why she spent the money on the raffle. He said he didn't produce any. He was going to get the OP's tegu from an unknown source. That was unacceptable to her as it would have been to me.
After that, then ty agreed to give her on she produced. Do I have to repost that screen shot again?
 
Old 04-14-2017, 12:08 PM   #1468
FresnoTortoise
I mean, give her one he produced. The message line is clear as day on the text message op posted.
 
Old 04-14-2017, 12:35 PM   #1469
Mike (The M)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoTortoise View Post
I mean, give her one he produced. The message line is clear as day on the text message op posted.
He didn't, though. He was pretty willfully obtuse by the end of it. When he said, "send me your address, etc." and continued to say, "you will receive albino tegu", all he had to do was say, "yes, I produced it" when Michelle pressed on its origin.

Ty could have even gone as far to say, it's the same genetic lineage, etc. and things would not be where they are now.

I typically don't sell things anymore, because I'm not a people person. If I put an ad out, I try to answer all the general questions in the ad. I'm not a breeder, I am a hobbyist who on occasion has things to sell, either produced by me or someone else. Once I've been asked one too many questions that are either already answered in the ad, or it seems the person is going to be high maintenance, I shut down. Ty did the same. When you position yourself to be a man of the reptile people, you don't really have that option.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the soup restaurant. "Too many questions, NO TEGU FOR YOU!"

He definitely relied on semantics. The raffle said, "you will get a tegu produced by me, if not, I'll pay you $3k."

Then it was, "I said if I did not produce any albinos. I did produce albinos, just not albino BLUES."

While I do not agree with how Michelle has handled every aspect along the way. For example, this was not a scam. I didn't agree with contacting another charity raffle, and say "I hope he doesn't scam them out of their prize." There are clear actions that both took, that snowballed the chain of events. That's not a scam, it's a pissing contest. Regardless of my personal opinion, she is still not wrong in her claims that he owes her.

If Ty is a "to the letter" guy, then it's ok for Michelle to be a "to the letter" woman. If she was just after 3k, I imagine this would have been over long ago, because she just could've taken the tegu he was going to give her, then turn around and sell it as "Ty Park line" for its market value.

You have brought up some points about what the raffle did or didn't say. The industry has some inherent standards of conduct. Unless you're a distributor who has bins full of the species in question, you typically get a picture of the animal you're getting.

If Ty had posted pictures of the babies he produced (which he often does), and provided Michelle a picture of one of them, it's evident to say she would have trusted him.

Those aren't the things being judged. What is being judged is whether or not Michelle has been made whole by the contract she entered into. In no uncertain terms, she has not refused anything, other than a consolation prize, which was never part of the terms.

Again, I don't agree with everything, on either side. But let's not conflate one issue into another. You're really just making this thread more useless to provide a case. Take the back and forth to PMs.

Michelle... dude has one thing right. If Ty is trying a libel case against you... STOP. RESPONDING. TO. NONSENSE.

Pet a sugar glider.
 
Old 04-14-2017, 12:40 PM   #1470
nickolasanastasiou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma Kritters View Post
A little off topic but it does seem to have relevance. I am just going off of my memory from years ago working with Tegus. If I remember correctly there was only a very small group of Blue Tegus that came in. Ron St.Piere would really be able to feel in the info. With a already tiny gene pool on the normal blues and with a very small number of original albinos I believe the gene pool is going to be the same no matter who the breeder is.
The fact that he would not divulge his source is not unusual. Most breeders will not tell customers where extra stock comes from. I supply several other breeders with stock myself. I would be very upset if I had sold animals to a dealer and he then told his customer who I was. Some of us would rather have the time to spend with our animals rather than talking with someone who has already purchased elsewhere.
I do feel Ty is handling this situation wrong to be clear. I just can't see where the genetics are likely to make any difference as long as they have been kept pure.
Sam
You are correct about the domestically available gene pool. However, one can still work to create some small amount of spread in a collection (if that matters to a person). While I am aim for genetic diversity in my projects, the way some harp on it is often overblown. A handful of escaped pectinata or starlings can go on to build enormous populations that do not lack in fitness and then those animals will experience mutations over time. It is not the way one would want to design things if all options are on the table, but the sky will not necessarily fall if options are less plentiful. Some people simply want the choice.

You are also correct that many purposeful resellers (I will use that word instead of breeders because one is reselling if one is not the breeder of the animals) do not reveal their sources. There are confidentiality reasons and plainly hassle avoiding reasons. If I produce a lot of animals and decide to move them to a reseller, his customers should be going to that reseller and should not be going to me. If I retail animals, then my customers should come to me and not to someone else.

Knowing who the animals came from can potentially speak to if they were kept pure. There are some sources I would not buy from if I wanted a pure albino blue. There are also some sources that produce pure albino blues (or other species of reptiles) that I would now not want to obtain stock from. The OP appears to have gone in with the idea she would be getting one Taesoon Park produced, so it mattered to her when forming her decision to enter the raffle. If he said he would get one from another breeder if he could not produce them at the outset of the raffle, that would have made for a different set of information upon which raffle participants could base their decisions to buy tickets or not, but that was not said to be the case up front.
 

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