what happens to a pyro when you shake in a little kingcorn?

the only answer I can give you with out stooping to youre unstable uneducated response is get back to me after you get schooled a little.
Jeremiah Ronsonet
Diablo Snake Farm

I am curious Seamus what are youre two favorite snake species.?

Seamus, ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!

By the way Seamuse, you somehow managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking. We have had our differences but dude, you have a gift for writing. I hope you are utilizing that gift, you are talented.

Seamus, you're the man, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Restraint, please.

Everyone is just posting opinions. NO ONE is absolutely right.

To start the ground work for a well rounded discussion, will someone please define the terms "species" and "genus" for me?

Then define "hybrid" in relation to the above terms.

Thanks.

The GENUS is the group of which an individual and others like it belong, and other related, but distinctly different groups of individuals belong. Only very closley related species are grouped together in a single genus. (Example: Elaphe guttata guttata and Elaphe bairdi belong to the same genus).


The SPECIES is a group of organisms that shares a common ancestor; a lineage that maintains its integrity with respect to other lineages through both time and space. At some point in the progress of such a group, members may diverge from one another: when such a divergence becomes sufficiently clear, the two populations are regarded as separate species. The key to defining a biological species is that there is no significant cross-flow of genetic material betwen the two populations. (Example: Elaphe taeniura taeniura and Elaphe taeniura ridleyi are the same species but different subspecies).

The SUBSPECIES are defined as "geographic subdivisions of species". Subspecies usually differ slightly in color and/or size, often associated with a climatic gradient or with barriers that inhibit gene flow and permit local differentiation.

And we can't forget INTERGRADES which are produced by interbreeding between subspecies that have overlapping ranges (in nature, not in our rack systems at home!). (Example: The "Kisatchie Cornsnake" is most likely an intergrade between Elaphe guttata and Elaphe emoryi.)

Ok, someone else can define HYBRID, lol.

Good job Kelli
In my work with ants I personally do not recognize the subspecific distiinction. Generally if the ant is distinct enough to warrant distinction I consider it a species. The reason I follow this is that once you start looking at material from throughout the total range of the species it usually turns out that what you were considering a distinctive character usually becomes a portion of the overall variability of that species. I feel pretty much the same with regard to subspecific variation with reptiles. That said For my usage a hybrid is only appliciable when separate and distinct SPECIES interbreed. Many other people consider it hybridization when even two forms or color variants of a species due the nasty, but strictest definition would only be limited to distinct species.

Gordon-

I tend to agree with you on the subspecies topic as well. Taxonomy can be so darn confusing sometimes!

this witch hunt is ridiculous.
"oh my god, he created a monster using three diffrent colubrids"

let me start by pointing out that KING SNAKES EAT SNAKES!! so any hybridizing that takes place using king snakes ( ecspecially cal kings) takes alot more time and experience than putting two boas in the same tub and pumping out live babies.

why would someone hybridize you ask...

"Because i like the way that Pyro King Corn Looks alot more than any corn snake, cal king or pyro i've ever seen."

it has produced a better snake. you assume that something has been lost in hybridizing. that is an ignorant statement!!!! any time you add new genes to an animal ( including humans) you are bettering it genetically by freshening the gene pool of that animal. you are in fact adding dominant genes that have been naturally selected over hundreds of thousands of years to a snake that would otherwise not have them.

corn snakes are boring and a dime a dozen. so what if we spiced it up some. threw in a little cal king and a lot of pyro. now we have a whole clutch of snakes that are genetically and astheticly superior to your corn snakes and your king snakes. as far as them being good feeders... pah-lease, i welcome you to try to feed them to one of your snakes.... i'll end up with a pyro king corn with a stuffed belly while you stand there scratching your head in astonishment. people are afraid of what they don't understand and i find this often puts tham in a defensive stance. between me and jerimiah we have the capabilities to hybirdize just about every snake in northern america with one another. we of course do not because we carefully select what is to be hybridized based on thier traits and behavior. take a look at that pyro king corn one last time. you want to know what we are learning?

1. we are learning about the properties of pigment and pattern in snakes.

2. we are learning about how universal pheromones are in different types of snakes.

3. we are learning that the breeding response is typically stronger than the feeding response.

4. we are learning that snakes are alot closer in relation to each other than we believed.

5. we are learning that Seamus is erked by snakes with big eyes.

6. we are learning that no matter how beautiful a snake may come out there will always be some purist out there who feels like we've commited some tabbo against nature like were fricken dr.frakenstein when in actuality the snakes bred on thier own free will. why would they do that unless...? maybe they are more closely related than we had thought. so chew on that for awhile and get back to me. in the meantime i'm gonna see what happens when you cross a purist with a chimpanzee. chances are thier offspring come out superior.

Chad Elmore
http://www.diablosnakefarm.com