Buyer Beware of Steve Ori Forgotten Realm

Have you told Steve that this thread exists?.... you might get your deposit back if you do. It's amazing how quickly people who dishonor a buyer will pay up to get rid of bad publicity.

YOU are IMHO entitled to a refund. You didn't get the animal you wanted or the service a paying customer deserves.

It seems forgotten realm needs to be reminded of the guarantee they offer! Just because they are in a financial hard spot doesn't mean a high paying customer has to suffer for their hardship.

I have mixed feelings on this one. While I feel that a refund is in order, I feel that it's because of a technicality- "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back." Were I in Steve's situation, I'd dfinitely abide by those words, and chalk it up as a lesson to be learned.

Looking at this objectively, the promised animals were produced, so this is not a case of the seller not being able to deliver. There seems to have been more than one reverse stripe in that litter.

As for the particular snake in question, it was made clear in the posted emails that "if" it were to be offered for sale, it would be at a higher price. At the time though, it was considered to be a holdback, and was not for sale.

Now, as I've said, there is indeed a lesson to be learned by sellers- "satisfaction guaranteed" sounds nice, but it can bite you in the @ss when you're not looking. How far should a "satisfaction guarantee" extend, since satisfaction is a subjective term. Should it consitute satisfaction with health? color? pattern? temperment? the alignment of ventral scales? or is it all-encompassing? Different people draw the line at different locations.

Reverse stripe boas are extremely variable. A deposit was made on a reverse stripe boa, a few of which were produced. However, those snakes that were placed on the market didn't meet the buyer's expectations. Normally, I'd say no refund is owed, but we once again come to that "satisfaction guaranteed...."

Drew should get his deposit back.

Well, according to what has been posted so far, Drew was told that if no snakes meeting his satisfaction were produced, he could get his deposit back. Of course, we are only able to take Drew's word so far, but if that was the case, then he should be given a full refund as none of the animals met his satisfaction/specifications.

Steve's financial situation should have nothing to do with completely denying a refund, though I could understand perhaps Steve asking for a period of time to get the deposit back to Drew if his situation was THAT bad. But even then, he should have known better than to spend that money before the transaction was completed.

Ken,

If that was the case the seller, probably shouldn't have even shown that animal. It was a holdback period. But the truth is Steve showed a picture of the animal in question, and suggested that it was for sale but at a higher price. I see your point, but I don't think it is fair for the buyer to show him the litter and once he points the one he is interested in tell him that that one is worth $200 more.

Drew wrote: If I put a deposit down and if there is no more reverse stripe can I get my money back. Thanks Drew

Hello Drew, Certainly you can get your money back.

Okay, if I have that correct from the emails I have read, then what is the problem with giving back the deposit?

Bear with me folks, I'm going to address the various points in reverse order. But first, I want to reiterate the fact that I feel Drew is indeed owed a refund in this matter.

Scott, recall from the quotes that you posted that it was agreed upon that a refund would be given if there were no more reverse stripe boas. The problem is, there were indeed other reverse stripe boas available (as best I can discern from the emails), so this isn't a case of the promised animal not being produced.

Dan, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Posting a pic of the snake in question alongside the other pics wasn't the wisest decision that could have been made. At the very minimum, the caption of that picture should have noted that the snake was not for sale. Subsequently offering that snake to Drew at a higher price is the wildcard in all of this- was it an honest faux pas, or something

Rob, as best I can tell from the email exchange, Steve's financial situation isn't being used as a reason for denying the refund- only as a reason for being willing to sell the holdback snake.

Like I said though, key to this whole issue is "satisfaction guaranteed..." A customer was promised satisfaction, and this obligation needs to be met.

The problem is, there were indeed other reverse stripe boas available (as best I can discern from the emails), so this isn't a case of the promised animal not being produced.

Ken,

I guess the buyer could of taken one of the other ones, but it doesn't seem to me (I could be wrong) that he spotted one he wants out of the other availables, but instead wants the same one that the seller states he wants to keep!

I'd have to say IMHO it gets right back to the email signature that says, "Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back."

And I don't think Drew is satisfied!

The signature statement seems to have a broad effect when taken a face value. I think if you are putting a deposit down on something and waiting for an outcome that doesn't eventuate then you are entitled to a refund on that deposit. As you stated in your post, At the very minimum, the caption of that picture should have noted that the snake was not for sale that drew wants.

I sent Steve Ori a deposit for a reverse stripe male. He said the most I would pay is 500 and if I did not like any he would refund my deposit

If the above was indeed the originally agreed to terms then there is no question that a refund is totally deserved. Combine that with the guarentee and how can you come to any other conclusion?

Steve, refund the man's money.

Wes Pollock

I let Steve Ori know I was posting my concerns here. This is what he said

If you want to take it to the BOI well
that's up to you.


I am also going to file a complaint with the internet fraud FBI. He said I could his e mail as a binding contract and in his signature he says Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back. We shall see what happens.

Drew,

Sorry to hear that Steve never resolved this matter. It's amazing how some people still refuse to see the "cause and effect" of their actions. According to him he is financial hardship and that's why he refuses to send back your money. What he doesn't realize though is that by doing so his monetary problems will worsen as result of lost sales. If he doesn't realize this in time his business name might soon turn into a fullfilling prophecy and truly be a Forgotten realm.

Don't give up Drew!