Who is responsible for fake het BPs??

This question has been bugging me for a while, since I have a friend who got burned on a deal...

Let me set the scene for you...hypothetically...

I have a few snakes that I trade for some baby Het Pied females.

I then turn around a sell the Het Pied females to someone else, as advertised.

The guy I sold them to raises them up for a couple of years, breeds a visual Pied male to them all, and gets zero Pieds in the clutch...

I realize the odds and all that, but let's say that he writes this off to bad luck and does the same breedings the following year.....and get zero Pieds.

My question is, who is responsible for making it right - me, who sold them to him directly, or the original person who traded them to me??

It is my opinion that I would be responsible, since I sold them directly to him - then it would be my responsibility to go back to the original guy that I got them from and try to get something out of him...

Agree??

Disagree??

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

This question has been bugging me for a while, since I have a friend who got burned on a deal...

Let me set the scene for you...hypothetically...

I have a few snakes that I trade for some baby Het Pied females.

I then turn around a sell the Het Pied females to someone else, as advertised.

The guy I sold them to raises them up for a couple of years, breeds a visual Pied male to them all, and gets zero Pieds in the clutch...

I realize the odds and all that, but let's say that he writes this off to bad luck and does the same breedings the following year.....and get zero Pieds.

My question is, who is responsible for making it right - me, who sold them to him directly, or the original person who traded them to me??

It is my opinion that I would be responsible, since I sold them directly to him - then it would be my responsibility to go back to the original guy that I got them from and try to get something out of him...

Agree??

Disagree??

Agree...but you first need to set things right with the guy you sold to.You cant say to him , "wait till i get my money back, then ill pay you yours"...that wouldnt be right.IMO

I think that when a person buys hets from someone they do not trust they should wait and prove the animals out themselves before selling them as anything more than normals.

if you buy them from a reputable source then there should be no issues getting replacement animals, or if they really ARE hets you should be figuring out what you did to anger the morph gods so badly they gave you the worst odds ever!!! lol

but I do think that... since those animals were sold as hets, and were not more than likely hets to somone who trusted you, they should be compensated, or the animals returned to you for the purchase price.

In my opinion if you sell something you take the responsibility of them regardless of if you produced them or not. Then you take it up with the guy/gal you got them from originally. In another thread this same thing happened and the solution offered was the person return the fully grown female hets that didn't prove out and the other person refund. Although I was a minority on that thread I still totally disagree with this solution because I think the guy that is getting refunded still ends up with the short end of the stick.

Person A sells hets to Person B
Person B sells hets to Person C
Person C houses and feeds hets until big enough to breed and then finds out they are fake.
Person B refunds Person C but gets full grown proven female ball pythons. Person C has his original money back but nothing for his time/effort and cost of raising females.

I think Person B should refund person C and let person C keep the females. Then person B should go back to person A to reclaim what he can. If person A disappeared then person B is out his original money but has breedable females and his reputation with person C.
Or
Person B can refund the difference between the het and normal (so that person C ends up paying for normals) and person C keeps the females.

In the end I see the responsibility on person B (ultimately person A but if they disappear). Otherwise you could daisy chain it down. Keep selling them as hets and when they don't prove out keep saying well person A produced them so take it up with him.

You should stand by what you sell wether you produced it or not. If you are selling animals you bought I think you assume the responsibility since your customers are trusting you and your reputation. You may end up burned but you were going to burned anyways because you bought the fake hets to begin with and you shouldn't differ the being burned to your customers.

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

It is my opinion that I would be responsible, since I sold them directly to him - then it would be my responsibility to go back to the original guy that I got them from and try to get something out of him...
Agree??

Yes, 100%

Originally Posted by Otter23

I think Person B should refund person C and let person C keep the females. Then person B should go back to person A to reclaim what he can. If person A disappeared then person B is out his original money but has breedable females and his reputation with person C.

If person B allows person C to keep the females, how do you figure that person B ends up with breedable females (and his reputation).

IMO, if someone is guaranteeing hets, the terms of the guarantee should be clearly spelled out IN WRITING at the time of purchase. That way, there is no room for whining a few years down the road. The only problem that then comes into play is verifying that the animal in question is the one sold. Even multiple photos at the time of sale can often leave one unsure 2-3 years later - and that is with BPs, which tend to have visual differences. There are many species for which it is nearly impossible to tell two individuals apart. (see another thread in the General Herp Talk forum on the topic of microchipping hets)

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

My question is, who is responsible for making it right - me, who sold them to him directly, or the original person who traded them to me??

It is my opinion that I would be responsible, since I sold them directly to him - then it would be my responsibility to go back to the original guy that I got them from and try to get something out of him...

Agree??

Disagree??

That is dead on how I feel about it Scott.

Regardless of the origin of a snake, the minute I advertise/sell a snake as a "het" I then become responsible for the genetics of that snake. Period.

Just to be perfectly clear - I am not involved in anything involving hets or non-hets - I just wanted to throw the question out there....

Quite honestly, there are probably less than a dozen people that I would even consider buying het snakes from at this point...too many supposed "good guys" going bad....and that is just the ones you actually hear of here...

Otter - I agree with you 100% that simply returning the adult female for a refund is not a fair deal for the end purchaser who has put 2 years worth of care and feeding into the snake...

Dare I ask what people think a resonable settlement is for something like this??

Personally, if I mistakenly sold a het that was actually a normal, I would try to work with the person as best I could until they were happy. Within reason. I will not take a beating but I would certainly make it right.

First option: if I had an adult het to offer I would give them that and let them keep the normal as well.

Second option: if I didnt have an adult het to offer, I would refund the money they originally paid, as well as give them a baby het and let them keep the normal.

Either of those options I would find fair for both parties.

Sorry Harald your right person B wouldn't have the females.