Adam at Millenium Morphs...give me my money

Adam,
In all honesty, I personally would refund just on the customer satisfaction issue.
Even if I believed myself to be completely in the right, I would refund anyway.

I understand that you believe that you went above and beyond your TOS to mediate this situation.
The buyer obviously does not feel that way. In this case you still have the snake and the funds, you are holding all the cards right now. I think it would show strong character on your part to issue the refund instead of waiting.

Heck, I believe many here would want to do business with a seller that believed he was completely within his rights to wait to send a refund but decided to send it immediately to satisfy a customer.

Adam, I agree with Dennis. I don't think anybody here is flagging you as a bad seller or trying to ruin your reputation.

To me, this wasn't a case of trying to rip the buyer off. It was just sloppy communication.

I see how some of you are looking at the situation, but what everybody is missing is that Matt and I AGREED that we would wait to ship after Daytona. That is what we did.....Because we did not specify exactly how long after Daytona, we are falling into a problem where people are thinking I did not ship quickly enough. Matt made it seem like there was no rush to get the animal throughout the entire deal. This is what everybody can not see. The phone conversations that I had with Matt are the key to this situation. I understand that you are looking at the emails and that is fine, because even by looking at the emails we are not doing wrong. The bottom line was Matt purchased a snake and wanted a refund in cash for an animal that he could of accepted when I offered to ship.

We agreed that I would ship to him on a Monday for Tuesdays arrival and I did not ship out on Monday because I did not hear from him to confirm his address and this is what triggered him to get pissed off and ask for a full refund. If you read the emails toward the end, there is an email where I asked him for his address and I would ship. He never confirmed and I did not ship. ONE DAY later he emails me and says that he wanted a refund because he took off of work and missed a day of work. I told him I would ship that day and he would have the animal in the morning and he REFUSED........He should have taken the animal instead of demanding cash back when he was aware of our policy.

Once again WE DID NOTHING WRONG.............

He will get his money..................................

I am sorry for those who feel different about the situation, but I guess you would have to be in my shoes to see our point. All of our years in business and we have never done wrong by our customers, that is what I will have to use in my defense. We have a very good reputation and we will stand behind our policies. We did not get our good reputation by screwing people over. We have been in business many years and have followed the same policies from the begining. We had no problems up until this point and I guess we will have to hope everybody looks at this situation and realizes that we did our best to make the customer happy. And when we send the customer a refund check we will post it up on the forum so everybody sees we made good on the deal like we had both AGRRED upon from the very start.

Just saying good night to all on this board. I must get some sleep as it is 5 am here in NY. I felt like I had to answer some questions and try and make my point clear. Hopefully everyone will understand. I will be posting a picture of Matt's refund check as soon as it goes out. This way everyone can see that he was paid. We have never screwed anyone in this business and do not plan on it. Thank you for listening............take care

Originally Posted by MillenniumMorph

We agreed that I would ship to him on a Monday for Tuesdays arrival and I did not ship out on Monday because I did not hear from him to confirm his address and this is what triggered him to get pissed off and ask for a full refund. If you read the emails toward the end, there is an email where I asked him for his address and I would ship. He never confirmed and I did not ship.

Adam is there another e-mail that isn't posted where you asked for confirmation? The only one I saw you said:

Originally Posted by MillenniumMorph

Matt, sorry I was out of town again....I will ship the animal MOnday........If that is ok with you .....My email was down and I just am getting the emails now. Call me if you need me ...631-831-0078...My phone will be on and I should have service...Thank you

Not quite the same as I will ship once you confirm.

Buyer states that he tried to call you several times:

Originally Posted by Matthew Crabe

I returned his email stating that that was fine and to please send a tracking number. I never received a phone call or email by Monday night, so I called multiple times to no avail. Since I didn't know if he shipped or not, I took Tuesday morning off of work to wait, but of course no delivery. I finally got a hold of Adam and he stated that he didn't ship because he didn't hear back from me.

Then in your own words you state:

Originally Posted by Millenium Morphs

I didnt want to ship the snake without hearing from you. And it was my fault that I didnt ceck my mail. So I will try my best to make it up to you.

Adam I am not piling on here, but I want to give you an outsiders perspective on the situation. You keep saying that cash refunds are against your TOS, and that you bent over backwards taking a payment plan, and you told him shipping would be after Daytona, etc...

To be honest, it is really irrelevant information. If you take out all the fluff and look at the facts here is what you have.

YOU and the buyer agreed on a payment plan, buyer sent you consideration(the down payment), you accepted that consideration, thus entering into a contract. Buyer fulfilled his obligation, within the allotted time, as agreed upon by both parties. Once full payment was received your obligation was to deliver the animal.

Now, since no specific date for delivery had been originally set, there is a grey area, so you can claim you were to busy and not be in breach of the contract. However, in your e-mail when you stated "I will ship the animal MOnday", you commited yourself to a shipping date. You admit fault a few days later when you said "I didnt want to ship the snake without hearing from you. And it was my fault that I didnt ceck my mail."

In a nutshell, you breached the contract. Everything else, especially any phone conversations that aren't recorded or witnessed by a third party, are heresay. This includes any alledged agreement to wait until the snake sold prior to issuing a refund.

You need to just send the buyer his refund and end it all here and now. The buyer at this point in time is well within his rights to have his credit card company reverse the charges for the downpayment and file a civil suit to be compensated for the difference plus expenses incurred in his pursuit of that money.

Although the statement "shipping after Daytona" is vague it stands to logic that the buyer expected to be right after the show and not weeks after. Having said this and putting myself in Adam’s shoes I would say that I never had and never will ship an animal before having a confirmation in writing that the buyer will be there to receive the animal. It is the seller (thus the shipper) that is responsible to ensure the safe arrival of the animal. If he does not receive confirmation that someone is going to be there to receive the package and ship it anyways you are putting the snake in unnecessary risk. This is what Adam said:

We agreed that I would ship to him on a Monday for Tuesdays arrival and I did not ship out on Monday because I did not hear from him to confirm his address and this is what triggered him to get pissed off and ask for a full refund. If you read the emails toward the end, there is an email where I asked him for his address and I would ship. He never confirmed and I did not ship. ONE DAY later he emails me and says that he wanted a refund because he took off of work and missed a day of work. I told him I would ship that day and he would have the animal in the morning and he REFUSED........He should have taken the animal instead of demanding cash back when he was aware of our policy.

Yes, the animal should have been shipped right after Daytona. But there should’ve been better communication between both parties as to when (seller) and a confirmation that shipping Monday for Tuesday was OK (buyer). It seems pretty clear it’s a case of miscommunication. Just MHO.

Can someone send me the email that he sent to me that had his shipping address and confirmation that Monday was a good time to ship......I did not hear from him and felt uncomfortable shipping an animal that I was responsible for without knowing I was shipping to the right address where he would be.......This is why I did not ship out on Monday like agreed upon. Then when he flipped out and sent that email stating he wanted a refund , I spoke to him and told him I would ship out and he would have it the VERY NEXT MORNING..........HE TURNED DOWN MY OFFER. He demanded cash back. I told him the only way I can refund your cash is if I put the animal up for sale again and sell it. Then at that point I will send you the money..............

HE AGREED.............THATS THE CONTRACT

Bottom Line ..........Matt has his story and I of course have mine.

#1. Matt New our compnay policy was NO CASH REFUNDS. (unless i killed his animal while he was paying it off)

#2. He refused me to ship when I told him he would have it the next day

#3. He agreed for me to sell it and then take a cash refund.


What else am I to do.......It was obviously a no win situation for me. Any move I made would not have been good enough.

If these three things are not 100% accurate please explain to me where I am still at fault..........

If these three things are not 100% accurate please explain to me where I am still at fault..........

OK, I'll give you my .02 on why you're at fault here.

Read your email below.

1) You bring up that you waited months for the money. That was not a favor; that was part of the negotiation of the deal. The buyer kept up his end. Your comments about being paid "in dribs and drabs" and your "kindness" in accepting a payment plan are condescending and irrelevant. He negotiated a payment plan, which you accepted. It's business. If you indeed had the animal sold 10x over for cash, then question your business decision, but don't try to put it off that you're being kind hearted to the buyer.

2) You admit that you did not check your email for his confirmation of shipping approval, then turn around and try to blame the lack of shipping on not having that confirmation.

3) Are you saying that from July 27 (when it shows the check was CASHED) until September 1 you were unable to ship any animals?

4) You agree to a refund in the email. You mention re-selling the animal, but do not anywhere in this email state that the refund will be dependent upon the next sale. You DO mention that if you end up selling it for more than what the buyer paid, you would like to compensate him for his time off work.

5) The golden internet sales rule: The money is not yours until the deal is complete. You should have the money, and you should return it immediately to the buyer since YOU did not comply with YOUR end of the deal. Period.

I had just received your email and have a couple of words in my defense. I spoke to you earlier and you said you emailed me, so I checked. First of all, I appologise for the small delay. The last payment I had received from you was deposited in the beginning of August. I told you I was busy with Daytona and all, you said OK. I have been super busy with shows since then and have been slacking off with my emails, because I have had no time. But I was shipping this week like I told you. You had purchased this animal MAY 26th and I finally received your final payment in July or August. If you recall I did not call you once to bother you for money. That is the main reason why I do not understand why you are so upset that you did not receive your snake yet. It is mid september and it was going out. We agreed that you would receive it after Daytona and it has been just about a month. So you did not loan me money for a snake you didnt get, you paid me in dribs and drabs for months. Which I was kind enough to accept, even though I had the animal sold to 10 other people the same night for full payment instantly. I am not angry at all and will give you your money back in full, But I want you to understand I tried working with you as much as possible and got a little busy this last month and was getting you your animal this week until you cancelled the order. So please understand and accept my appologies for what there worth. I am reselling the animal and will be selling it for alot more than you paid. If I get alot more for the animal, I will pay you for the 1/2 day of work that you missed due to our miscommunication. I didnt want to ship the snake without hearing from you. And it was my fault that I didnt ceck my mail. So I will try my best to make it up to you.
I will refund your money asap. I think I already sold her. I am just waiting for a response. I will post her tonight and hopefully sell her by the end of the week. Once again I am sorry and will make it up to you ........Thank you

What else am I to do

Refund his money. Don't let this drag out any longet than it needs to. It appears that both of you have different ideas of how this was to be handled so at this point, you might as well just refund him the money and go on with business.

No need to keep dragging this on. It appears that there will not be a satisfactory solution for either side. So end the deal, and refund the money, and put it behind you.