Adeno Thoughts

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

Sure they do have the right know if the dragon is positive or negative, but that is that telling them if you yourself just said that just because a dragon is positive doesn't mean he/she is ill?

Anthony

Anthony, no one knows which dragon will be healthy or not but they have the right to chose. But if they knew, they could take the extra precautions to keep that dragon healthy. It's all about testing isn't it Anthony. Breeders don't want to test so let's all gang up on the people that feel if a breeder tests, they are responsible. Yes, I know the testing is not very good but it is all we have. I wouldn't expect the breeder to test 100's of times. I would think breeders would be curious to know if their breeders carried the virus and test to find out than turn their heads to it.

Adeno is like HIV. It can lay dormant for years and rear it's head like aids does in humans. Don't ya think people oughta know this. How sad it would be for a lady to purchase one of your so called healthy beardie hatchlings for her child only to have the dragon at 1-4 years old just die on them. If that parent knew adeno could do this, do you really think they would want it? NOPE because their child would be hurt.

All I can say is this...if you insist on telling prospective buyers that beardies are adeno positive, then you MUST tell them about any parasite they have had, or any RI that was not identified, or any other problem- they have had, high coccidia counts in the past. Then you need to tell them what treatment was implemented to rid the dragon of the preceding issues. But maybe they test positive to the RI they had, does this mean they are worthless dragons??? Or does it mean they will never suffer like they did before because their antigen presenting memory cells, many that are B cells that produce antibodies-that have the job to ellicit cytokines that kick in the T cells that fight this previous infection recognize it now and the poor poor dragon never gets sick from this exposure again??? Perhaps we need to let life be as its suppose to be??????????? Take care all, B and thanks Anthony.

Oh and I forgot the most important thing...they pass this to their offspring...B

One more thing...if we want to understand this more perhaps we should get into the immunolgy and science of adenovirus. What do we have for dragons that helps them with this virus? The only drug I know of for humans is gancyclovir, foscarnet, famcyclovir, and IVIG, along with cidofovir and probenicid. How do we treat dragons for illness with adenovirus? B

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...t=DSCN1083.jpg
It depends on the amount of exposure and subsequent innoculation with these bacter. Not that they were exposed, it depends on how much they were exposed to...just like any other bacteria or virus such as AV.

Have 2 or 3 conversations going now...I was commenting to the bacterial infections...it depends on the colony counts, the exposure to and how much it was exposed to before you say that a dragon or any other subject had an inferior immune system. B

Adeno positive dragons are not worthless, they just should not be bred. Why spread a disease when it could be stopped.

Just out of curiosity do you know the different things adeno affects Beardiepal? Well here is a short list that I HAVE experienced:

It can block their absorption of needed calcium. I have experienced major MBD even though my dragon had the highest quality MVB on the market. The best powdered rep cal calcium on all her feeders. Today, she is maintained on liquid calcium and will be the rest of her life.

Aspergillus, which my vet didn't think he could kill it so I went out on a limb and found something that worked.

Pinworms and coccidia (my male)

Bacterial infections from infected silkworms that didn't appear to be sick but carried bad bacteria. My vet said it only takes one bacteria to infect my male. He had two infections, the other from hornworms.

Comprised immune systems caused by adenovirus. Mine are healthy only because I know what to look for and I do routine fecals myself. Do you really think people want to have to monitor their dragons so closely to keep them healthy. I don't run to the vet with fecals and treat for high coccidia. To much meds actually lowers an immune suppressed dragons immunity to even lower. Mine live in a very clean environment.

I was told once by a big breeder that you have to look outside the box for care for adeno positive dragons. An inexperienced person wouldn't know where to begin. It's not fair to them.

Originally Posted by Beardiepal

One more thing...if we want to understand this more perhaps we should get into the immunolgy and science of adenovirus. What do we have for dragons that helps them with this virus? The only drug I know of for humans is gancyclovir, foscarnet, famcyclovir, and IVIG, along with cidofovir and probenicid. How do we treat dragons for illness with adenovirus? B

When I first tested mine, I had a vet recommend this antiviral med. I tried it for a while but the side effects were not good. It causes lack of appetite and my dragons stopped eating. So I stopped the med. I don't have it anymore and I think it was called Virolite but not sure.

I was told once by a big breeder that you have to look outside the box for care for adeno positive dragons. An inexperienced person wouldn't know where to begin. It's not fair to them.

I have not figured out how to quote you but this is indeed what you said....back it up...what do the inexperienced need to know?,,,thats the whole ideal going down now ps caulkins and Tracie and everyone else...you have not illicited to us the bottomline of what we should know because you do not know yourselves. Give me the Bottomline, backed up with research, and I will be so very glad to comply. Do not make me feel like I am killing the beardie nation. I am a hobbyist, I love my beardies as I love my dogs. I am not the topscale breeder-they have some of the same inclinations as myself..I am sure they have those they really love & care about, their prize dragons. Why would you say that breeders are any diffrent than myself?
And what drug did they give your dragon? This is elementary knowledge that we need to know. If you cannot even remember-how is your memory going to help the AV cause? respectfully, B

Oh and by the way I did my thesis on Aspergillus in kids with cancer...how is this different? tell me how we can make the research happen. Aspergillus is everywhere....humans harbor it...it is a dormant thing residing in many species...fungal infections are like viral infections in humans...just a handful of meds...many humans die...B