Adenovirus Questions

I doubt you will get a answer from her, if you go back and reread all her posts they don't add up. She states it is easy to find a lab to test blood PCR.

some examples:

My second decision was to retest my 4 existing core breeders, as well as the rest of my animals at that time, and to use the Lab at the University of Illinois for the testing. If by chance one of my animals does test positive, I want it to be a benefit to our community, and right now, that Lab seems to be the place to get it done if the end goal is research into this disease.


The one thing I heard over and over from people was to contact Dr. Jacobson. I know that other people heard the same thing I did, got the same replies, and after you hear it 20 times, it doesn't take long to figure out that the guy to go to on this issue is Dr. Jacobson.
Then, I got an email from Dr. Jacobson on what tests were accurate, called my vet to see if she could handle the tests, and she could, at least the PCR testing which is sent out to a lab, and then I got tested.

What I can tell you is that in my experience, finding someone that knows a lot about Adenovirus may be difficult. Finding someone with the ability to do the PCR testing for it isn't.

the PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.

This post is from bearded dragon.org from the infectious diseases section..good reading.

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewforum.php?f=61


But, you did not PCR test your dragons. You EM tested them.

Florida would like everyone to know they do not do blood PCR and they are upset over this misinformation, Dr. Stacey or Jacobson will speak with anyone who wishes to question them about the validity of her statement XXXXXXXXXXXXX [admin: phone number removed. I seriously doubt they care to have a flood of calls. If they want that contact info provided, THEY can post it.]

Dr. Stacey said you did not submit any samples, he does not have your phone number and you will not call him.

We do not have 11 negatives in the country as of 3/27/07 after retesting of the negatives, the numbers are dwindling Chastity and when the statistics come out next week it will show that you did not have 11 dragons test negative by PCR at his lab and his lab is the only one that does the PCR. The people with the small number of resulting negatives are going to be able to be verified with a phone call to the lab.

Florida does not do blood PCR /swab end of story. They dont offer it anywhere in the country. It has not been done. You did not test your dragons by PCR blood and neither did Denise. You did not even test them by fecal PCR, you did not PCR test them period. People are calling the lab about your statments and Dr. Stacey has told them the truth and they are bewildered beyond belief.

In the EM testings, the statistics is 3 out of 4 dragons positive..... 162 positive and 63 negative. Out of your 11 submissions all 11 were negative..not even a rare viral particle seen or occasional....all 11 no viral seen, you were the only person to accomplish that. That defies the law of 3 out of 4 ( closer 72%)...anyone, anyone can see this is not possible anyone that knows how to work percentages and statistics. 11 out of 11 has not tested negative by EM only yours out of 225 dragons tested....only you accomplished a 100% negative rate on all submissions.

Originally Posted by mikey

the PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.

My vet did contact them, they only do the fecal test. NO cloacal swab, no blood draw. They have very strict procedures as to how to handle the sample and how fast and fresh it needs to be. Still the problem arises in that I CANNOT get a fecal sample. Someone on here has claimed to do a blood test. I want to know the name of the lab, as my vet has attempted to contact every lab she knows of in this country and no one will process blood tests. We decided to use LouAnn in Illinois because it was cheaper but even still it does not isolate the species specific strain of adenovirus in her testing method. I have several different species of animals, dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, me.. so I am looking for that method that people have used aside from fecal PCR to test this particular dragon. Like I said because of where he came from, there is a good chance. I want it to be 100% accurate first time tested without a doubt. He has been in quarantine and will remain that way reguardless of if he tests negative or not. It's real easy since he is a male so there is no way I would be wanting to use him this young anyway, but someday I did plan on using him. I have no other reason whatsoever to think he has this virus aside from his heritage. But I certainly won't ever use him unless I can get some answers on paper in my hand thru multiple accurate tests. All I need is the name of the lab those persons have used. I will pass that onto my vet and she will do the work from there. California Avian is out, Jacobson is out, U of IL is out. WHo else is there? Someone used some place, I just need to know where it is. I am desparate here. Gimme a state at least to look at, something. If you don't trust me with the actual lab, at least drop the state to look in. I don't want anyone's personal info or test results, I don't care about the drama, I just need a lab.

This is denise's whole post from 1-26-2007, 08:14pm

Originally Posted by Denisebme

The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.
There are a few real differences between the tests. PCR testing is handled like any other blood test. The fecal testing requires very specific handling in order for the test to be reliable, and, at least for me, with incorrect sanitation if you have multiple dragons being tested, you can actually accidently cross contaminate your samples. I didn't want to risk false positive or false negative readings, I didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

I guess you will have to ask Denise where she got the test done, it seems to not exist according to other's.

Posted on beardeddragon.org
" Florida does not do blood PCR /swab end of story. They dont offer it anywhere in the country. It has not been done. You did not test your dragons by PCR blood and neither did Denise. "

OK, I could not remember who it was that had those tests done. My head is killing me today more than usual so looking thru the pasts posts on some of the longer threads was just not possible for me. But the only lab I know of in CA is California Avian, they do test for AVIAN adenovirus, but not reptile. That is where my vet got mixed up as she deals with alot of birds as well, which is also why I came here to correct that statement I made a long time ago. Which I should have done sooner, but I forgot I posted that. But I went there in Jan. and she could not use them, thought she had it lined up for FL, but when she double checked before she drew the blood, that was a no go also. Was Denise the only one who had the tests done thru blood? Who else has had it done that way? If so drop me a name of the lab that will do it please.

Chastity said that she had her blood PCR/cloacal swab test done from the University of FL in Dr. Jacobson's lab. Dr. Stacey who works under Dr. Jacobson confirmed that this test is not performed there on Wednesday 3/28/07.

Another poster made a post earlier that they had blood PCR/ cloacal swab done through their vet : Studio City Animal Hospital. Dr. Flannigan from Studio City Animal Hospital said on Thursday 3/29/07 that he had exhausted efforts to find a lab that will do this "obscure test" and if Univeristy of IL does not offer this then he does not know who would.

There are a few breeders wanting the blood test and they are looking around for it. This test is not available for bearded dragons. Why don't you put that dragon in a sink of warm water...he should go in the warm water. Then send the feces for PCR testing to Florida. A blood test is not the way to go, even if it existed for dragons, go read a post from a biologist who develops these testing methods on another thread. Just get him to poo one way or another, you have no other source for testing.

NO offense, and not trying to sound like a snob, but if he hasn't pooped in the water in the 8 months I have had him, 4 of which I have been trying specifically to do this, then he is not going to suddenly do it now either. It's just NOT going to happen. And as of January 2007, Florida does not do the test. I went into my vet office to have the blood drawn after she incorrectly told me about this test in December. She didn't specify reptile and not avian sample being submitted for adeno so CA Avian just assumed she meant avian. No big deal. So I got sent home because she didn't have her notes with her that day, she forgot I was coming. 3 days later she called me because I was rescheduled to try again and told me not to bring the dragon, no one would do the blood tests anywhere. She contacted Dr. Jacobson herself and confirmed this in January. It's not like I have sat here doing nothing in the mean time waiting. But if it hasn't happened by now, it just isn't going to. But thanks for the concern. Really not trying to come off rude.

No problem, didnt remember if you tried the sink thing. Blood test would be great on an animal like this that is uncooperative...don't know what to tell you. We only have fecal tests right now, so I think you are stuck trying to get him to poo. He sounds like he is frustrating you terribly.

Frustrated is an under statement with this guy. But can't think of a better word to use, aside from 4 letter ones, but that doesn't do much good either. I'm not going to stop trying by any means. But he likes to go in his cage when I am not around, then he takes his paper and uses it to cover it up, like a kitty does. Put no paper in there and he just runs thru it and it gets everywhere. I am 99% positive that he has it, but I just want to see it on paper either way. It's just unfortunate because he appears healthy, vibrant, voracious appetite, good growth rate. Nothing outwardly says he has it. But that is how it works, even the healthy ones can get it. I went thru 5 months of waiting and problems to get him, it'd just be nice to put all this to an end and know for certain.

Originally Posted by draggintails

Chastity said that she had her blood PCR/cloacal swab test done from the University of FL in Dr. Jacobson's lab. Dr. Stacey who works under Dr. Jacobson confirmed that this test is not performed there on Wednesday 3/28/07.

Another poster made a post earlier that they had blood PCR/ cloacal swab done through their vet : Studio City Animal Hospital. Dr. Flannigan from Studio City Animal Hospital said on Thursday 3/29/07 that he had exhausted efforts to find a lab that will do this "obscure test" and if Univeristy of IL does not offer this then he does not know who would.

Looks like Chastity did not even do the EM testing per Lou Ann today. Here's a link to the whole thread. So the only two people claiming to have negative results are starting to be called out. I think it is just a matter of time for Denise to be proven she did not test BLOOD PCR either.

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/v...ic.php?t=49918


Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:03 am** *Post subject: Dragon results



Dear Chasity,


Would you please contact me privately off board at lamiller@uiuc.edu


I can not find these results, actually, I don't even have a fax machine to fax with, nor have I faxed anyone at all in about 2 years.


Lou Ann
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lou Ann Miller, MT(ASCP)
Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
Rm 1204 VMBSB
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61802