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Old 11-18-2015, 03:53 PM   #41
Stanley M. Ordonez
Thank you

Thank you
Old 11-19-2015, 02:22 PM   #42
Originally Posted by Kimberly Craig View Post
That's exactly what I was wondering . I haven't seen him but I have seen his presence meaning when he catches a bird ,feathers are in a rectangular circle.his trails .little things now that make sense to me that I noticed in the past . Truly relieved and waiting for the next sighting . No touching . I would like to see it in complete length where it lives . I would probably have to camp out and wait without the dogs . I'm amazed .

Just catching up on this thread. Great to hear you have a wild indigo nearby, and are treating it with respect. However, as both a falconer, and an indigo owner, I have to chime in about your bird feathers. An indigo, or any snake for that matter, won't leave a pile of feathers. They just swallow the whole bird, feathers and all. What you're seeing is the work of a raptor, most likely a cooper's hawk, or possibly a sharp-shinned hawk, merlin, or kestrel. It could also be a cat, but probably one of the hawks I mentioned.
Old 12-27-2015, 08:54 PM   #43
An excellent point, Scott. My cats leave piles of feathers, a snake never does.....
Old 02-06-2016, 05:33 PM   #44
MCMB Reptiles

What evidence do you have that this is a genetic defect caused by inbreeding? What evidence do you have that these snakes should not be bred? Other than the fact that people have trouble with hatching out babies, which another (experienced) person has said is normal due to the difficulties associated with incubation and breeding this species. Have you personally bred this species and noticed that inbred babies always have split scales and outbred babies do not? For that matter, have you bred them at all?

I have seen you make some pretty serious claims and have not seen you provide any sort of basis for them. We have an experienced keeper of indigos having 3 generations of unrelated pairings that still have split scales; this to me implies it is NOT the result of inbreeding and completely invalidates your claims.

If you could share with us what you are basing your argument on other than buying one snake and returning it I would very much appreciate it (and I'm sure others would as well).
Old 02-06-2016, 05:42 PM   #45
MCMB Reptiles
I'm also curious where you came up with the "two scale" rule. On the ball python you posted I see a split between 4-5 scales. I have also hatched out ball pythons from two completely unrelated parents (I'm talking that originated from opposite ends of the country) that had a larger split, mainly due to incubations issues. Considering the accuracy needed to obtain viable eggs in the case of indigos, does this not seem to be more likely than not?

Read Robert Bruce's guide on breeding indigos and then tell me it's not difficult to breed them. I really don't understand where you came up with your theory but I don't think someone who owns one indigo should be talking about exactly how many scales each indigo should have split in order to be considered acceptable or how much they should cost.
Old 11-21-2016, 08:22 PM   #46
Stanley M. Ordonez
Indigo- split scale

I had a new lover of Eastern Indigos message me on split scales on these snakes. He recently purchased an eastern indigo and did not notice the defect till a couple of weeks after the purchase. It is too bad that he did not see the problem . He is a novice and what bothers me is that the seller who has some knowledge of what good specimen should look like; sold him an eastern indigo stating that it was in perfect shape. It has split scales; if you want to see split scales take a look at my previous post- I returned this snake. What advice do you have for this person. I wished he would of seen the problem. I my opinion this breeder took advantage of the buyer. But the buyer should of done his homework before the purchase. If I were the breeder; even though time has gone by, the breed should take back now the larger indigo with a partial refund. If our word means anything we should stand by it. I wish you both luck .
Old 11-21-2016, 11:21 PM   #47
At this point in the discussion, I'd mention that I had an absolutely perfectly scaled 7 foot girl; apparently a magnificent, perfect specimen, bred by Steve Binnig. She died, last year, of an enlarged heart. All my other 5 couperi (from entirely different breeders) are doing exceptionally well. Needless to say. I don't believe that a few split scales and genetic defects like enlarged hearts are related.

And again, decades ago, I owned several wild caught couperi with split scales.

Stanley, I think you're talking out of your hat, with no evidence, no experience, and in contradiction to very respected breeders. No point spreading hearsay and nonsense, let's use science.
Old 11-24-2016, 03:23 PM   #48
Hi thank you for starting this discussion. I have a 2016 female black phase with what I think are splitscales/umbilical scar. Attached a picture. Can anyone confirm for me? My breeder says it is an umbilical/natal scar but I also see one Y scale.

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Old 11-24-2016, 03:25 PM   #49

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Old 11-24-2016, 08:44 PM   #50
tim brophy
I see both the umbilical scar, which appears to be maybe 9 scales in length. I also see the split scale posterior to the umbilical region. That split scale is not part of the umbilical scars.

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