Anyone delt with Rian @undergroundreptiles.com?

I would be more than willing to explain anything youd like but I am unsure of what you are reffering to. Please just let me know.


Thanks,
Michael Tragash

Originally Posted by Hard2FindHerps

In the BUSINESS of trading reptiles it is important to remember that we all originated from the same place; that is that we were all originally hobbyists. That being said, as hobbyists we displayed an inordinate amount of CARE and REGARD for our animals well being.

Somewhere during this hobbyist stage we realize the potential profitability of and thusly begin to investigate this new found opportunity. While investigating we make a decision which defines the rest of our careers in the industry.

A three part spectrum develops:
1) Extrme Left: Business: This segment defines those individuals who have forgotten about the level of CARE and REGARD for the animals well being that they upheld as hobbyists. Their focus is on $$$ and that alone. This has some drastic implications that may lead the eventual overall BAN of reptiles. Im talking about selling people animals that they cant take care of which leads to the unnecessary release of non native species and potential harm to both the animal and the handler. A more pressing concern though is that of how the animal is represented to the customer. You will often times find that these individuals do not accurately represent their animals such as my experience with a nippy carpet python and the other person's experience with the Uro which eventually passed away.

2) Middle: These individuals have made the decision to uphold the level of CARE and REGARD they are accustomed to which thusly benefits the keepers, the industry, and the hobby as a whole safe. These individuals have been able to ethically make a profit from their hobbies. THESE INDIVIDUALS DO NOT SACRIFICE ANYTHING!!! They have instead decided to provide the highest level of service to the customer and the highest level of regard to the animal.

3) Far Right: These individuals are pure hobbyists. ON THE TOP OF THEIR MINDS IS THE GENERAL WELL BEING OF THE ANIMAL AND EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE, THE SPECIES AS A WHOLE. They will make personal sacrifices for their animals and would even be willing to sell any offspring they produced well below the market standard.

Rian Gittman hardly fits the description of the ethical reptile dealer we all envision. He preys on people who have a distinct disadvantage in that they come to him with a real lack of knowledge and assume he is an expert. This creates a situation where the customer believes every word that he says and therefore follows his instructions. This is what happened to me. I was not told anything about the fact that my snake could be nippy and how I should handle it if this situation arises. He was unwilling to take my snake back after I had it for a few days and decided that I could not deal with its behavior. He left me in a situation where the outcome could have been an inexperienced keeper with a mean snake and this only leads to trouble for the entire community.
Moreover, I saw an article on the internet somewhere in which Mr. Gittman discussed how he collects water snakes and ribbon snakes right out of the wild. He does this and then sells the animals in his shop. We know that the world will be unliveable if we continue to rape the land of its resources and yet people are STILL DOING IT!!!

As for you Mr. Light, Bluteguz@aol.com, pristine pythons, arboreals, or JLexotics: You dont even have the first clue about how to operate a business. Youve been talking for the past few years about getting a WAREHOUSE, this is the correct spelling, YET YOUVE GOT NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT BECAUSE YOU CANT COMMIT TO ANYTHING. As is evident by your multitude of aliases, you have yet to pick an ID and STICK WITH IT!!! Its obvious that you are continually trying to reinvent yourself in these forums because of mistakes you have made in the past, however minor they may have been. BOTTOM LINE IS: YOU WANT A FLAWLESS REPUTATION AND YOU JUST CANT GET IT!!!

For any inquiries contact hard2findherps@hotmail.com

Michael Tragash

LMAO!!!

I'm not about to get into a war with you but I do find your words very funny. Everyone has an opinion and your's has been stated. My name was changed for 2 reasons. One I had a few partners I no longer want to work with as I'm going to do this alone. Two is because I no longer only want to work with only pythons, so I needed a name that covered a broad amount of reptiles. I'd have to say I have alot to show for it. I've met some amazing people in this hobby and have worked with some animals I at one time could only dream about. My ball collection has far surpased anything I could have ever wished for. You don't have a clue what I have or what I don't have. As for mistakes in the past that's Irrelevant. My name is Always in my signature so it's not like I'm trying to trick anyone. I even contacted the webmaster to let him know I was doing so. Funny...I rarely use these forums anyways (maybe 2 times ever). Everyone makes mistakes and there is NO way around them. All I can try and do is try and prevent them. If I wanted a business I'd already have one and that's all I would be doing. That is clearly not what I want. LOL That's my Aim SN I don't even use that for e-mail, I don't use AOL at all. I wasn't going to but for attacking me can we please come clean with everything? How about the fact that you keep venomous reptiles illegally under your brothers name? How about you left venomous reptiles home while you were away at school with you KID brother? I could have my liscense just as easy as you got it but I have no need for it. Do you have a flawless rep? I doubt it as I know from your friends as well as personally that you have had some deals go wrong. Very few if anyone has a flawless rep as sooner or later something goes wrong. You really can't please everyone but you sure can try. Now tell me, did you get your point across? I surely got mine across. Now If I'm really such a bad guy why am I keeping venomous reptiles illegally putting the entire hobby at Risk? Anyways I don't intend to reply to this thread as I'd rather not fight back and forth, come to me if you have a problem.

so I replied....Sometimes you preview these posts and they look right then you want to go back and reword some things. No Edit option..

This is Jonathan Tragash, the person whom the Mr. Light is making alleged claims in the posts above. I was going to completely stay out of your dispute, but now my name has been brought up. I just want to reccommend that this thread be moved to the Hell Forum because it has past the point of relativity to business. I also would like to request that the previous post my JLexotics be deleted because it is libel and a defamatory act. This needs to end here before I take further action.

Thank You
Jonathan Tragash

Originally Posted by Hard2FindHerps

I also would like to request that the previous post my JLexotics be deleted because it is libel and a defamatory act. This needs to end here before I take further action.

Thank You
Jonathan Tragash

Posts are not removed from the B.O.I. because someone demands it!
What further action are you threatening here?

I think you should thank about what you say a little more carefully.

Sorry for the typo. I made my point anyway

I thought about what I said, and the claims this person is making are false accusations. I am housing all of my animals in proper enclosures as to Florida law. I have met Mr. Light to knowledge only on one occasion, so I am asking that I be left out of their dispute. As per your comment Mr. Hultman "Posts are not removed from the B.O.I. because someone demands it!" I never demanded. I requested, never demanded, that these posts be moved to the Hell forum. I then also requested that his posts of Libel and defamation, which is a civil offense, be removed from the forum. My "threat" as you call it was towards Mr. Light. I recommend that he not mention my name in future posts.

Thank You
Jonathan Tragash

Accusations? Maybe I should have taken some pics. John I have met you on more then one occasion. We drove down to Zoological imports once with Mike and your little brother. I've met you at your parents house, as well as your work place. Mike has taken this to far. I have no problems with you or your husbandry. Your name was never mentioned. If you were to re-read you can clearly see I was speaking about mike in relation to you. Pleason don't make threats as they don't get you anywhere. I haven't stated anything incorrect and I will stand by my word! I have nothing more to say.

Originally Posted by Hard2FindHerps

I thought about what I said, and the claims this person is making are false accusations. I am housing all of my animals in proper enclosures as to Florida law. I have met Mr. Light to knowledge only on one occasion, so I am asking that I be left out of their dispute. As per your comment Mr. Hultman "Posts are not removed from the B.O.I. because someone demands it!" I never demanded. I requested, never demanded, that these posts be moved to the Hell forum. I then also requested that his posts of Libel and defamation, which is a civil offense, be removed from the forum. My "threat" as you call it was towards Mr. Light. I recommend that he not mention my name in future posts.

Thank You
Jonathan Tragash

I was not sure if your remarks were directed at the BOI or towards the individual.
If you read the rules of the forum, you will know the post will not be deleted.