Scammed by Andrew Michael Popp Las Vegas, NV

Originally Posted by calebroad

Also Nick,

I want to bring up a few circumstantial items with regards to this member, Andrew Popp.

In a past post, I noticed he listed a turtle and put in the description that he thinks the turtles are het albino. I believe they are tortoises, and I dont know much about tortoises.

Anyway, he also sent me three turtles that are undersized tremendously, and on the July post, he stated they had sold, but also, he listed three turtles, two of which are the same turtle (in the photos).

But also he waited six months, and listed the same three turtles with dramatic characteristics that inflate the value.

So, in a different light, I would think with Faunas dedication to weeding out scamming, having nothing to do with me, I would think these factual discrepancies in his listing would put him in violation.

I have no dog in that fight, and Im not here to run the website. But I at least wanted to point these items out.

Do you have anything more specific about the tortoise listing?

As for the site's operation, April covered it well.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

I do not know if they are or are not the same turtles, but incorrectly measuring once can conceivably go with incorrectly measuring twice.

If I came into possession of a species I am not familiar with, there would be a learning curve. To be in the reptile business as Andrew is does not mean he knows a lot about all reptiles or the conventions for measuring them. I am not by any means giving him a pass on inaccurate measurements or what have you, but these errors are at least conceivable if he is much more a dedicated squamate guy and much less a dedicated chelonian guy.

I am not saying you are responsible for your loss (depending on what comprises that or defines it). The size discrepancy was sort of accepted according to the text and the approximate descriptor gives him some wiggle room, too. The legitimacy of the labeling for the genetics (as het for caramel) is something I cannot even begin to know since it will take test breeding to prove out. You have at least three very knowledgeable guys who are said to disbelieve the label and I can understand and recognize that. The problem with that piece of things is that they do not know everyone, what everyone has, or from whom they got what they have. I know people with breeding projects of caramel/snow sliders that have never chosen to advertise and their hets are as real as anyone's. They can provide chain of custody and lineage information if they want to, but if they did not for some reason (privacy or maybe protecting a source), the turtles would be just the same in terms of genetics. It would have been in Andrew's best interest to disclose lineage/whatever information before the transaction was done. Back in the "courting" phase of the deal, I mean. It also would have been in your best interest to demand that information prior to payment. What is done is done now, though. If Andrew is being pursued through legal means over the matter, he might want to wait to share that information (if he has it; he might or might not have it). This is an unfortunate situation at this point and I am not sure how it will go, but the case is not an easy one to win. That is not said to discourage you, but there was a sort of flip-flopping of terms at points in the deal and that complicates things a lot. I hope for your sake that, when they mature enough and add a little more size, they prove out. If they do not, then there is the matter of the offspring value and splitting that out if the transaction is reversed or not if kept and used to recoup the value difference in the sale. Either way, you will at least be out time if they do not prove out (which is not technically the same as disproving, unfortunately). No fun ahead in my opinion.

Yes, I see.

I appreciate the input, I will attempt to recover. But also, I will be extremely cautious in future transactions.

Obviously, I could have been more careful, but that is water under the bridge now

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Do you have anything more specific about the tortoise listing?

As for the site's operation, April covered it well.

I have nothing more to add about this member, I threw the thought out there, and April answered it for me.

Thanks

Originally Posted by calebroad

I have nothing more to add about this member, I threw the thought out there, and April answered it for me.

Thanks

April's response was in regard to what the moderator team does and does not do and how Fauna works (as well as where to discuss that sort of topic). That is a matter of site governance.

I am asking if you could provide me with more information about the tortoise ad (or turtle ad) you mentioned that you said Andrew posted. Where did you see it posted? That is not a matter of site governance.

It's sucks this happened and I feel really bad but all this thread does is make sure many people won't do business with either party after reading all this. Both sides seem very shady in all this and it's left a bad taste in people's mouths about the business associated with Andrew and that's also unfortunate. But once again I am truly sorry to whoever truly got screwed here we may never know.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

April's response was in regard to what the moderator team does and does not do and how Fauna works (as well as where to discuss that sort of topic). That is a matter of site governance.

I am asking if you could provide me with more information about the tortoise ad (or turtle ad) you mentioned that you said Andrew posted. Where did you see it posted? That is not a matter of site governance.

I went to the Apopp profile and it let me look up all posts, I pulled up one and it stated he believed it was het albino.

I wondered, this guy always thinks it's her fot something more valuable

Originally Posted by calebroad

I went to the Apopp profile and it let me look up all posts, I pulled up one and it stated he believed it was het albino.

I wondered, this guy always thinks it's her fot something more valuable

It's a monitor lizard actually,

Which I also don't know much about.

-Chris

In post #417 ,Chris, you said you had your male in with "them", indicated you delieve they are all breedable? You said, "I'm very hopeful at least one will become gravid soon". Back up to post #340, where you stated "in a few years, they prove out...". Cut to post #424, your exact words were "they are not adults, everyone agrees on that". And youI wonder why people take everything you say with a grain of salt. I wonder if you actually believe your own lies. Nice husbandry skills there bud.

Maybe someone can weigh in on the most accepted way to present animals that may or may not be hets. I think "possible hets" is widely used? Ideally "possible" because the seller knows the breeding and parentage and they may or may not have the het gene.

"I think they're hets" is a little fuzzy. Is it because the seller doesn't really know, or is guessing, or has no idea but it sounds good? However, I don't know if this is indicative of possibly sketchy behavior as much as it might be a lack of experience of the seller with those animals and what is industry standard practice. A more experienced seller might say "this animal was sold to me as a het but I do not have confirmed lineage" or something.

But the rub would be, I think, whether the animals were priced as normals or hets. Jacking up the price due to a "I think it's a het" would be a bit iffy, IMHO. BUT, I haven't looked at those ads so I'm speaking hypothetically.

Not to derail the thread or sink into a morass of other stuff, but have you looked at past ads by this seller? Since the het issue seems to be the problem that you are disputing with him, any evidence of past dealings is relevant, I think.

I really don't know if the seller scammed you or not. I do think though, that you need to be careful that you aren't walking into a bit countersuit by the parties you've named. If those animals ARE hets, and you've posted what you have here, you deserve a judgment against you, including all their legal fees, for libel and I wouldn't be a tad bit sympathetic (not trying to wind you up, just speaking honestly).

Have you considered that if you are wrong, you may have caused financial harm to these folks who are innocent of wrongdoing? There is more than just a "oops, I guess you're not a scammer" if that happens.

Originally Posted by calebroad

It's a monitor lizard actually,

Which I also don't know much about.

-Chris

Yes, I looked up all of his posts here and there are none about a tortoise or turtle being het anything aside from the ones you bought.

There was a post about a Savannah monitor. Not sure if it is a hypo or what have you because I see a lot of variety in this species and the lighting for the photos was so-so. At least one other person (Jerine Blissett) in the ad thread felt it was a hypo. Andrew Popp did not seem completely sure himself, but he said he believed it to be a "T+" (albino) or hypo animal.

Ad attached. I am not sure how it relates, but here it is.