Greater Nashville Reptile Show?!?! Warning / Potential problems.

I hate thiefs, and I hate liars. Those people suck! And so do the ones that support that type of BS.
As for my vendor gathering, I'm almost completely sold out. Only two spaces left. I've already got 7,000 tix pre-sold.
To the professor: your seat here will cost $125 plus the $300 permit to get you in my front door. Maybe more if we don't like you.
Cricket

I have read this entire thread through more time then I can count and is blows me away that there are people here that still want to defend a couple of crooks for what could possibly be the biggest con-trick that this beautiful industry sees all year.

I'm thinking of contacting Reptiles magazine and seeing if they will do an artice on the crooks in this business and highlight Kellie and Troy #1. I really think that all the people in this business needs to know what happened in Nashville on July 1-3.

Well, I am not above changing my opinion when proper evidence it shown. I have confirmation from someone I know and trust that they did bounce paychecks and the check to the building owner.

Couple other points:

I'll tell you what professor Sam. You go right ahead and publically associate yourself with these guys. You go ahead and do a Chatanooga show. It might be worth the drive to see a show with one vendor.

Sam is my father, you may call me Samuel or Chuck. Thanks. You seem to be under the impression I intend to co-promote with these guys. Not my intention. We talked about me speaking at the show and perhaps helping to find the proper venue.

I personally saw balls there for $20-$40.

As did I, but they sell at PetCo for $24.99. $20 to $40 is not a “show price” that is retail store mark up. If you are in the business, you know they are imported at about $2 to $3 each. I don’t deal in them often, but I will when someone asks for one. The last two I purchased, imported male Birmingham, AL show $10. Captive born male Columbia, SC show $20. Both were fare show prices. I ended up haggling to get an import for $20, so I saved a whopping $5 over getting it here at PetCo. As for what I needed, I bought baby corns (in high quantity) at the last SC show for $3/each. Skinks at $.50/each. Wasn’t anything near that at the show.

To the professor: your seat here will cost $125 plus the $300 permit to get you in my front door. Maybe more if we don't like you.
Cricket

Audry, I do not understand why you would want to be snide with me. I have treated you with the utmost respect since we first met. When you set up at our show in Bristol, VA….I directed many customers to you. I rarely have need for chameleons, but every one I have ever needed, I have made a point to purchase from you. Perhaps I have over estimated the respect between us.

Sorry about that Chuck. But it struck me as unusually odd that someone with such professionalism would actually defend those crooks. As for the price gouging, Kelly told the vendors to price their animals up. She said people in that area pay $70-$80 for normal ball pythons, and $80-$90 for baby chameleons. Baby bearded dragons go for around $90. Said we'd all make great money. In reality, K&T are the only ones that made anything. Nothing she told any of us were true.
Yeah, the food was good, but I don't think any of us would have eaten it if we'd known she actually stole it. She wrote bad checks to pay for everything. She told me that she'd used the money from the 6000 presold tickets to provide our meals. Yet, only 2 tickets were sold. Wassup with that?
Cricket

Chuck

I have heard several people complain about the prices there. Some of the things you said just irked me. It wasn't meant as a personal attack.

VERY few people get to purchase balls for $3 ea. Unless you are importing them by the tens of thousands. Most people who buy a 100 or so is paying between $7-$9. NONE of those balls have eaten a meal when you get them, so you take the chance of them living or dying. By the time you get a couple meals in them and with shipping, caging, heating, deli cups, table fees, gas, food, hotels, die-offs (I'm sure the list goes on) You easily have $10-$12 into them. Why would anyone want to invest that and turn around to sell them for $15? People are selling 10 lots of feeding females for $350 on the internet and others are paying it.

When you get vendors like the guy dumping non-eaters for $5 each all it does is hurt the reputations of shows in general. I am a firm believer in the theory "You get what you pay for". I saw that everyones prices were about the same for balls at the show. Except for one vendor. Now for a guy that feeds dying snakes to other snakes that guy is a nice find. I can assure you that the quality of care that goes into an animal is reflected in its price (normally). If he had a sign on the cage that said "non-eating balls" it may have been different. I talked to people that bought from him and they had no idea that they were non-eating snakes.

As far as "Bonnie & Clyde" doing another show, trust me when I say it isn't going to happen. Any vendors that have already done their show won't do it again. (I wouldn't if tables were free) The other vendors who considered it are glad they didin't and have heard about what happened. Now that you are starting to beleive they actually wrote bad checks, who would ever work with them? I had numerous residents tell me the mayor owned that building.
If I were going to be writing bad checks one of the last people I would write one to is the mayor of the town I live in. Bad payroll checks? How can legal ramifications not be following? It should've been a clue Friday night when we couldn't get them to turn the other half of the lights on.

I know these people on a very personal basis they are crooks,scammers and liars who took animals and caging that did not belong to them they have only been in the herp business for less than a year as for fraudulant checks this is not the only place it happened!there are many other people looking for them! they did however hope for a bigger show so they could skate with more money in their pockets!

I should have known Friday night that things weren't going to get any better. I wish I had left then. But it's nothing unusual for vendors to show up on Saturday morning. Lots of them work another job. Then with having to pack animals & such and driving for hours to get there. But Saturday morning was just as bad as Friday. By this time, I'd already drove 6 1/2 hours to get there & setup for the BIG SHOW.Then I had to pack & stress them again with the long drive home. It wasn't even worth what my animals had to go through. When I do a show, I like to believe that I'm finding good homes for my babies. Not putting them through a stressful weekend of BS. I'm a breeder that puts her heart, time, money, & soul into caring for the reptiles. There is absolutely no sense in the crap they had to go through.
Kelly is good. You have to admit that. She can look you in the eyes & tell a lie without blinking. She had an answer for everything until we ALL became suspicious. Then she fled the scene. Yeah, by early Saturday, we had her figured out. The only reasons I didn't leave then was because 1- room was already paid for, and 2- I had a good time with my friends & made a lot more good friends in the process. But the main thing to remember is that we didn't show up for a weekend of fun & games. We came to make money. Not to be crapped on by some useless sack of you-know-what. These people are not even human enough to be called that. I can only hope that they were hi-jacked & robbed on their journey home. It would be hilarious to know.

If you read in my prior posts i did not even attend as a spectator I did not even believe the show was for real the list goes on and on of the people they scammed and ripped off through REPTILE AUCTION and locall people in the area I really feel bad i helped them in their business because they shure hurt mine! Iam a very forgiving person but my wife stopped me from damaging my reputation any further by involving myself in this event as much as i wanted to believe they were turning a new leaf!

Sorry about that Chuck. But it struck me as unusually odd that someone with such professionalism would actually defend those crooks.

One of my strong points, or perhaps drawbacks, depending on how you look at it, is that I always like people till they give me a reason not to. Kellie & Troy were exceptionally hospitable to me the time I was there. I saw lots of accusations being made about them, some predating the show, and I didn’t see any evidence backing the accusations. Now I see the evidence, so regardless of how I feel about them, I couldn’t make a case to defend them even if I wanted to.

Yeah, the food was good, but I don't think any of us would have eaten it if we'd known she actually stole it. She wrote bad checks to pay for everything.

Well, it seems it was worse then that. As I understand, they wrote checks from a closed account. What I SAW for myself, was a fantastic venue, excellent food, and a well done advertising campaign. It seemed to me that gave an admirable effort to take care of venders and keep the promises they made. What I learned later was they were not able to pay for what they had done. So from there, we have to draw our on conclusions. Did they willfully con everyone? Or was it a business plan gone south?

Wassup with that?

Unless Kel actually comes out and publicly addresses this, we will only be able to speculate. This my OPINION as to what happened. They had a plan for an expo. Instead of building a show up form the ground (IE Birmingham, AL) they wanted to jump in and pull a huge show from the beginning (IE Bristol, VA). They needed venders, so they embellished the amount of pre-sold tickets to attract the needed venders. Dishonest by all means, but I feel they thought they would pull 6000 or 7000 from a city with the population of Nashville. I think I paid $7 to get in. Lets use 6k as the expected number. Kel used this figure, so we will assume that she expected at least this amount. 6k @ $7 is $42,000. They rent the venue, get a caterer and pay out advertising. I think the venue was around $7000. Kel told me the catering was $4000 and we’ll estimate $5000 on advertising. They grose $42k, pay out $16k, go home with $26k from the door alone. Not a bad paycheck for the weekend. And of course, if 6000 people wonder thru, then vender sells would have been good. I think this was what they counted on, but of course, it did not materialize and they ended up with probably $20,000 or so in immediate debt and a gate of maybe $7 to $8k. And in that situation they paid off with bad checks and got out of dodge.

The other possibility was they new there would be no gate and they coned everyone from the start. If you look at that, it just wouldn’t add up. I only saw Friday and I heard they had a gate of like 350 people. As I am gathering from this site, hardly any venders paid off, so the gate was the only income. For the sake of math, we’ll say they did 350 on all 3 days. That is a total gate of $7350. Kellie did not strike me as stupid. She knows full well writing those checks on a closed account is theft by defraud and the amounts involved are felony charges. This will carry jail time for them if they can not settle it. Would she really want to go to jail for $7300???? I just can not see that.

I do see that they misrepresented things to venders, and if I was a vender, I would be upset as well. But to say it was intended to be a con does not add up. It was a business venture that went about as wrong as it could go. Everyone lost money and for all practically purposed, seems troy and Kellie will lose a lot more.

I have heard several people complain about the prices there. Some of the things you said just irked me. It wasn't meant as a personal attack.

There is certainly going to be some price deferential from the Midwest and the Southeast. This is the Mecca of herpetology and started here and this is still the stronghold. Our prices will certainly always be a little lower then yours by the laws of supply and demand. I can’t remember if we talked. One table from KC and a pair of ghost boas my neighbor was trying to trade for. He has some albinos het for snow that he offered, but you guys never came to terms on it. If that was you, Al was impressed by your snakes. And to be honest I am ignorant to the prices of high end boas, so your table may have been show price and even cheaper, I couldn’t really tell you. When I am looking for beginner balls, I want cheap priced fresh imports. If it fresh from the jungle, I can get it to feed. The ones that have been in captivity for months are the problem animals. And anyone that bought those $8 balls and thought they were feeding had no business getting a snake to begin with. =) They had obviously done no research.

Its not just checks from this event it goes back to aug 04 and the acct was closed in dec 04 the have been in the business of deception for a long time here!