Kameron White

Originally Posted by Akiranar

Being that I've seen your siding with someone who would not honor their deals, and that you have specifically asked me to place you on my "Do not deal with list" I would never give you $900 for any animal you had.

You already burned your bridges with me, and I would never trust you with a cent of mine.

But that is no longer here or there since Kameron has already admitted that he's going to keep the iguana and the $100. So he has stolen from TyJohn. And you seem to be okay with that.

Not only is Kameron a bad guy, but you are also in my eyes.

You’ve busted me Mandi. I am a bad guy, kind of a super villian actually. I’ve been in the industry for 30 years breeding and selling some pretty unique animals. Over the course of these years can you imagine all of the bad guy stuff that I’ve done!?!? You should do a search and really dig up some dirt on me. Can you imagine what you’ll find from this bad guy who’s been around the hobby for 30 years? I bet there’s some epic bad guy stuff. You should also list the known bad guys that I associate with. I mean seriously, warn the community!

Originally Posted by 3240

You’ve busted me Mandi. I am a bad guy, kind of a super villian actually. I’ve been in the industry for 30 years breeding and selling some pretty unique animals. Over the course of these years can you imagine all of the bad guy stuff that I’ve done!?!? You should do a search and really dig up some dirt on me. Can you imagine what you’ll find from this bad guy who’s been around the hobby for 30 years? I bet there’s some epic bad guy stuff. You should also list the known bad guys that I associate with. I mean seriously, warn the community!

The community can see for themselves when you defend bad guys. I'm just telling it like it is. There is a thread on the front page that has over 2,000 posts where you defend the bad guy in it.

But this isn't about you. It's about Kameron, who has admitted that he is keeping the iguana and the money. He's earned his bad guy title. Why defend him when he's admitted that he's going to keep the animal and the money? Because it might not be the animal he wanted? Then send it back, or send the money back. He can't keep both.

Oh man..... What a mess. I saw this thread moving along at a rapid pace so decided to look into it to see what was going on. And honestly reading through it, I became disoriented about what photos included were of what animals. The crux of the matter appears to be that kw18 is claiming that tyjohnko sent him an animal that is not what was pictured in the advertising copy that the animal was sold from.

Then the secondary issue is that tyjohnko sent kw18 a partial refund of $100 which was supposed to be a good faith gesture (and pay for return shipping?) with the understanding that once the animal was received by tyjohnko, then a full refund would be processed and the matter concluded.

tyjohnko appears to be standing behind the customary policy of nearly every reptile breeder, middle man, or end user retail shop I know of that requires that the merchandise be returned before issuing a full refund.

Apparently kw18 has come to not trust tyjohnko to issue the remainder of the refund after he had sent the animal back to tyjohnko.

So now tyjohnko has $800 of kw18's and kw18 has the animal and $100 of the original $900 he paid for that animal.

So am I on the beam with this so far?

Assuming I am not missing something else, I figured I would look at the first issue and base my opinion of the "legitimacy" of the claim that the animal received is different from the animal that was received by comparing photos of what was advertised for sale, and what was actually received. This will have to be done in several posts because of the limitations of uploading images to an individual post, unfortunately.

So first I will upload the images that are supposed to be of the animal that was being offered for sale. The first two are directly from the ad by tyjohnko, and the third is (if I remember correctly) another photo of the same offered animal that was sent to kw18 by tyjohnko.

There are six significant photos by kw18 that I will now include, but with the limitation of only 4 attachments per post, only four will be included here, with the remaining two in the following post.

And now the last two photos from kw18 of the six total I reviewed.

Originally Posted by Akiranar

The community can see for themselves when you defend bad guys. I'm just telling it like it is. There is a thread on the front page that has over 2,000 posts where you defend the bad guy in it.

But this isn't about you. It's about Kameron, who has admitted that he is keeping the iguana and the money. He's earned his bad guy title. Why defend him when he's admitted that he's going to keep the animal and the money? Because it might not be the animal he wanted? Then send it back, or send the money back. He can't keep both.

Actually Mandi, you've made it about me. Who's the bad guy that you're referring to? Ty Park??? I've known Ty Park for 25 years. I like Ty Park, always have. I liked him before he became known in the industry and I still like him. Do you think one thread on fauna is going to change the way that I feel about someone I've known for 25 years? You can call me whatever the hell you want. I like this hobby and have met some great people in this hobby, people I consider friends. Over 30 years I've developed a good reputation, helped a lot of people, and you will not find one single complaint about me.

I don't know Kameron but, in my opinion, he was burned. You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. If I sent you an animal that was different from the one in my ad would you trust me enough to send you a refund after I ship the animal back to you?

Webslave, those photos really help. They appear to me to be different iguanas.

Now I will admit that I know next to nothing about these iguanas but I think over the years from observing miniscule differences in colors and patterns of baby corn snakes, I should be able to review such pics and make a reasoned determination of whether or not the pics of the animal from tyjohnko says he was going to sell to kw18 match the pics of the animal that kw18 says he received and provided pics of. I am assuming that the patterns of the animals pictured could not have changed dramatically enough to be influential in changing how that animal looks now compared to how it looked when the ad offering that animal for sale was posted back on 11/25/2017.

In my opinion, they are not the same animal. I say this because in my opinion the dorsal pattern on the left side of the back is different, as are the markings on the visible portion of the left rear leg. Also, in my opinion, the dorsal pattern at the base of the tail is also different between the two pictured animals.

Again, my opinion is based solely on my viewing and reviewing the photos provided as evidence by both parties and scrutinized as best I could for such details that appear to be pertinent to make such a determination. I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THESE ANIMALS. I am only basing my opinion on what I can see with my own two eyes.

As for the second issue about the $100 dispute, I don't think this can be resolved at all at this point in any manner that would satisfy either party. kw18 appears to have reasonable grounds to distrust tyjohnko because to him, too, it appears he was not sent the animal that was being offered for sale in the photos provided. tyjohnko appears to have reasonable grounds to distrust kw18 because of his earlier claims about disputing the credit card payment (which turned out to be untrue) and the claim that he would do so while keeping the animal in question too. So my opinion is that both parties are deadlocked at this point.

To be honest, the only solution I can see at this point is for both parties to just cut their losses and get on with their lives. tyjohnko got $800 for an animal he wanted $900 for. kw18 got an animal for $800 that only he can come to grips with as to whether it is worth that much to him or not. I don't see either party breaking the stalemate at this point and capitulating in either direction. So I guess both parties can just lick their wounds and retreat from each other bearing scars, or keep on taking stabs at one another until both finally bleed to death in this thread.

Again, in my humble opinion.

Can I ask a question? This is probably a stupid question. I don't know a thing about iguanas, I am new to reptiles in general.

If the animal received and the one advertised are the same species and sex... why does it matter? At all? I am not a lizard person, but if someone showed me a normal corn snake and sent me one with a slightly different pattern, that was in good health and the same sex as advertised, I'm not sure I would really care. At all.

One work of art is not necessarily an equal substitute for another work of art. One good friend is not necessarily an equal substitute for another good friend. One son or daughter for another son or daughter. Depending on your perspective, the individual can matter a little or it can matter a lot.

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I would still like to see the images whose thumbnails are shown in post #5. They would not complete the picture, but they would be steps towards a more complete picture.

Also, it looks like there might be email chain gaps.

Either party could assist with these, yet neither has.