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General Legislative Discussions Any general discussion concerning legislative issues or events. Not necessarily specific to a particular region, or even a type of animal group.

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Old 11-17-2011, 06:08 PM   #81
deborahbroadus
Quote:
Originally Posted by radera5 View Post
That is just ridiculous IMO. Writing one email and forward it to a list of people is not too time consuming. Reading thousands of emails could take a lifetime.
Come on now...
That's how the government started making decisions FOR us. "It's too time consuming to get the input from the "sheep" ...."

Not a good rationalization, imo.
 
Old 11-17-2011, 06:22 PM   #82
Wolfy-hound
So you want legislation that Wyatt wrote for your state, even though he's said he hasn't put forth any legislation in your state?

How EXACTLY would you have someone prove that they HAVEN'T done something? I mean, seriously... if you believe he's proposed legislation, let's see some proof from you!

I could say 'Prove that you did not write up XXX" and you can't prove that. You can't prove a negative.

You are all over the place, and now try backpedaling to say that you didn't say this or that, but you did. You stated more than once that microchipping killed reptiles. Now you say "oh I didn't say it kills ALL of them". You ignored the actual studies showing that MUCH more delicate reptiles and amphibians were microchipped without any ill effects. You also ignore that millions of dogs and cats have been microchipped without ill effects.

Chips are inert matter. They don't cause issues because they don't interact with the flesh. Unless you'd like to somehow claim that I've just gotten SUPER lucky(along with everyone else I know with microchipped animals, none of which have had issues) and a ton of other people are the ones with all the lousy luck, then you haven't shown that microchipping hurts in the least.

If you go to USARK's site, they usually have all the proposed stuff on the table available on the site for download.

You should really stop tossing around accusations without a shred of proof. And when will your group be up and running?
 
Old 11-18-2011, 12:20 AM   #83
ldydrgn
Andrew answered that question on his page:

Early in the year I stopped a state legislator from introducing a bill that would have outlawed crocodilians, venomous and big constrictors. Do you remember that? I have not been talking to any Legislators in PA about introducing ANY bills

So you see? He stopped it without suggesting the proposed legislation.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 01:05 AM   #84
Cat_72
I can't quite understand why you are taking such a strong stance against USARK trying to be proactive, and coming up with a set of compromises that may mean the difference between you keeping your animals and not having them at all?

Perhaps if put in a different setting, it may help you to comprehend? I will use as an example the Pit Bull bans that have been enacted all over the country...Denver, Colorado passed a ban on Pit bulls some years ago, and those who did not comply had their dogs seized and euthanized (well over a THOUSAND dogs killed). Nevermind that the number of dog bites actually went UP after this ban was in place for a while...it didn't matter because ALL Pit Bulls were declared to be dangerous.

While these bans have been put into place all over the US, there have been many instances where an outright ban has ONLY been avoided by devoted Pit owners COMPROMISING. They now must have a certain height of fence around their yard...keep a muzzle on their dog when it is in public...register it with the city/county...microchip the dog...whatever. Point being, of course in a perfect world they wouldn't have these restrictions, but it they comply because it allows them to keep the animals they love.

Now, I am not really even going to address your phobia of mirochipping other than to say that I have always had my dogs microchipped, and have never had a single issue with it, nor has anyone else I have ever known other than the occasional "migration" of a chip to a different location. If you look hard enough, you can find people who think just about anything is deadly and will kill you (from vaccinations to sugar to chocolate to sex and everything in between), but if you read between the lines, you can usually figure out that these are some kind of extremist views with very little ACCURATE scientific basis.

However, on your point of the cost of microchipping...I know of many people who breed dogs, as well as animal rescues, who do their own microchipping and beyond the initial cost of purchasing the equipment, the cost becomes almost negligible.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #85
GREGORY J HALL
USARK is all we have I support them if not all reptiles will go & bans will be enacted.The press jumps on every incident thats happens badd press all the time!
 
Old 11-18-2011, 11:16 AM   #86
radera5
Quote:
Originally Posted by deborahbroadus View Post
That's how the government started making decisions FOR us. "It's too time consuming to get the input from the "sheep" ...."

Not a good rationalization, imo.
If you think there is really enough time...
 
Old 11-18-2011, 12:23 PM   #87
rodneynboalich
as for the pit bulls look how it started with rules and regulations and then they moved to a ban. as for usark being the only there is pijac and they operate much like jusark with proposing rules and so on heres and email from pijac about what they are planning on doing next week in ohio

Dear Ohio Reptile Enthusiast:



Bambi Osborne, Esq. of the PIJAC staff and I are heading to Columbus Monday and Tuesday next week. We will have John Mack of Reptiles by Mack with us for this round of meetings. We are going to stay away from specifics, but will state our willingness to be involved in the process. We are going to state that since reptiles are so dissimilar to the dangerous animals that the task force is dealing with, we think it is better to deal with reptiles separately—apart from this process of the task force—whose minutes over the months indicated a lack of understanding of reptile issues. Then, if they agree we will join other industry groups to increase their body of knowledge about the issues and focus on proper caging of the larger constrictors—but that will come later. We have been having a conversation with USARK about this approach to get reptiles taken off the table for now, so I think both groups are agreed on this.



The main goal is to meet as many of the state leaders as we can, and then become part of the process of deciding how to deal with the perceived problem, which we feel is not a problem at all (but could become that “one in a million” problem if a totally unforeseen incident between a retile and a human happens). Something totally unforeseen could destroy the industry, that is why we have to make sure cages are good, etc. Adequate containment reduces the risk of an accident. More on that later!



We will let you all know how it goes, see our meetings that are set below.





Monday, November 21, 2011

7:30 am – Breakfast with Bill Byers, possible lobbyist

11:00 am – Meeting with Governor Kasich’s office and ODNR’s Scott Zody

1:00 pm – Rep. Buchy-R (Justin Barnhart) (13th Floor)

1:30 pm – Rep. Phillips -D (Kathryn McDermott) (14th Floor)

2:00 pm – Rep. Damschroder -R (Todd Thatcher) (11th Floor)

3:00 pm – Rep. Landis -R (Tim Maly) (11th Floor)

3:30 pm – Senator Jason Wilson -D (Ranking Member) (Maria Gilland) (Ground Floor)

4:00 pm – Senator Balderson _R (Zanesville district) (Josh Eck) (1st Floor)





Tuesday, November 22, 2011

9:30 am – Rep. Andy Thompson-R (Mike Sabo) (11th floor)

10:00 am – Rep. Dave Hall-R (Chair) (Mike McGuire) (11th Floor)

10:30 am – Rep. Kozlowski - R (Jeff Anthony) (13th Floor)

11:00 am – Rep. Fedor -D (Rank Member) (Marta Mudri) (10th Floor)

11:30 am – Rep. Carey -R (Kendra Kromer) (13th Floor)







Mr. Mack’s Representatives:

Rep. Jarrod Martin –R (13th Floor)

Rep. Bob Hackett -R (11th Floor)

Senator Chris Widener -R(1st Floor)





House Building: 77 S. High Street, Columbus

Senate Building: 1 Capital Square, Columbus







Mike Canning, Esq., CAE

President and CEO

Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council

1140 19th Street NW, Suite 300

Washington, DC 20036

Work: (202) 452-1525 ext 108

Cell: (202) 536-8432


here is a link to reptiles by max. he is a wholesaler of mostly geckos and ball pythons

http://www.reptilesbymack.com/pythons.php
 
Old 11-18-2011, 12:51 PM   #88
Nanci
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneynboalich View Post

or that 2 year old in FL.

if we could prove even one of these chases to be a lie it would discredit all propaganda
I haven't made it to the end of this thread yet. Everyone who knows me knows the CONTEMPT I feel for the owners of the snake in that case. I would have _loved_ evidence to have been found that proved the snake was being used as a scapegoat. Yet the medical examiner found that the snake was responsible for the death. (Although not at fault, and the parents were sentenced to 12 years in prison).
 
Old 11-18-2011, 01:04 PM   #89
rodneynboalich
now usark is suggesting registration and so is the state of ohio so they are in agreement. the thing is the state of ohio is suggesting a $1000 registration few for each species you keep. so when you say your agreeing with what usark is doing i dont think you fully understand the implications. these rules arnt just rules they are laws punishable in a court of law. keep in mind usark can set up model legislation for states to enact but how much imput do you think they will have in imposing the laws and handing out the finds and possible jail time and what the fines and jail time will be. usark can set the police but that cant control the states after they enact polices. keep in mind the people enforcing the legislation are the same people that wanted to ban the animals altogether. so how fair do you think they will be.

andrew wyatt hasnt told us what will be the out come of his model legislation.

USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

safety protocols
escage prevention plans
registration
micro chipping

these are the rules and yet we dont know what will happen if someone dosnt comply
and what if we do and something still gos wrong. what will the fines be
what will be the rules be for selling registered snakes. can you sell to anyone or do they first have to get registered and also pay a few.

will it be a one time few or will you have to pay it every year

and how will be coming into your house to inspect your cages and if you have to have your cages inspected how often. and they come into your house anytime they want without a warrant. will we have to sacrifice are right to privacy and let the state in our homes anytime they want to inspect our snakes (our personal property).

and micro chipping will it be for all reptiles or just some and what about babies your produce and the few for micro chipping them if you have to micro chip 500 babies at $25 plus vet few so lets say total of $50 for each snake. thats $25,000. what if your producing $20 corn snakes thats $10,000. so you mite have to spend $25,000 to make $10,000.

the whole point of these regulations is to make it so hard to comply to the laws that you wont bother having these animals
 
Old 11-18-2011, 01:05 PM   #90
rodneynboalich
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneynboalich View Post
now usark is suggesting registration and so is the state of ohio so they are in agreement. the thing is the state of ohio is suggesting a $1000 registration few for each species you keep. so when you say your agreeing with what usark is doing i dont think you fully understand the implications. these rules arnt just rules they are laws punishable in a court of law. keep in mind usark can set up model legislation for states to enact but how much imput do you think they will have in imposing the laws and handing out the finds and possible jail time and what the fines and jail time will be. usark can set the police but that cant control the states after they enact polices. keep in mind the people enforcing the legislation are the same people that wanted to ban the animals altogether. so how fair do you think they will be.

andrew wyatt hasnt told us what will be the out come of his model legislation.

USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

safety protocols
escage prevention plans
registration
micro chipping

these are the rules and yet we dont know what will happen if someone dosnt comply
and what if we do and something still gos wrong. what will the fines be
what will be the rules be for selling registered snakes. can you sell to anyone or do they first have to get registered and also pay a few.

will it be a one time few or will you have to pay it every year

and how will be coming into your house to inspect your cages and if you have to have your cages inspected how often. and they come into your house anytime they want without a warrant. will we have to sacrifice are right to privacy and let the state in our homes anytime they want to inspect our snakes (our personal property).

and micro chipping will it be for all reptiles or just some and what about babies your produce and the few for micro chipping them if you have to micro chip 500 babies at $25 plus vet few so lets say total of $50 for each snake. thats $25,000. what if your producing $20 corn snakes thats $10,000. so you mite have to spend $25,000 to make $10,000.

the whole point of these regulations is to make it so hard to comply to the laws that you wont bother having these animals
i meant fee where i wrote few
 

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