Hybrids.....

I am currently invoved in a what can now be looked at as a pissing match about hybrids on another site......

There are currently no hybrids (proven anyway) between a leo and a AFT..... But I wonder how long it will be before some greedy, irresponsible breeder produces a cross between these two species.....

It is a proven fact that hybrids can come with a whole bunch of problems ranging from infertility to cancers..... Sure some hybrids are viable but what is the cost of trying to produce viable hybrids???? How many clutches have to go bad before you can get a few babies to live????

With some of these hybrids, everything might look ok on the outside, but these hybrid producers have not clue what is going on on the inside and on a molecular level.....

On the inside, organ formation/placemnt can be way off.... Skeletal structure deformities, especially in the skull are found in many hybrids.....

DNA strand structure is way off and leaves many gaps in the bonding points in ALL hybrids.... Even in the lowest of multicellular organisms...... These gaps are open door ways to a ton of physical and biological problems that may or may not be visible from the outside.....

And lastly, what if these hybrids get into the hands of people that do not know any better and start breeding them to pure stock??? This means that the captive populations will be tainted with unpure blood lines.....

I think hybridization is a greedy, self-centered, irresponsible thing to do.... Breeder do this to "see what happens" and to make a bunch of quick cash..... There is no benefit to the reptiles or the hobby...... Hybrids are mad souly for personal gain or satisfaction...... I refuse to support those breeders involved in any type of unnatural hybrid production.....

I can understand producing natural intergrades but to hybridize two animals of two dufferent species that would never do it in the wild is just very unethical and irresponsible.....

I can not believe how many people there are that see no problem with this at all...... And some even support it...... Their argument is usually something rediculous like "hybrid vigor"....... What they do not understand is that the term hybrid vigor is almost always used in dog breeds..... All dog breeds are the same species so if you breed a poodle to a dalmation, it is not a hybrid..... It is an example of an outcross......

Here is what I am talking about with the DNA strand......

Leo X Leo offspring

lll ll llll lll ll llll lllll
lll ll llll lll ll llll lllll

Leo X AFT offspring

lll ll llll lll ll llll lllll
l lll ll llll lllll ll lll l lll

See the gaps left in the strand??? That is what happens in ALL hybrids..... Even yeast hybrids.....

while i am curious what the hybrid may look like i know that once produced it will likely eventually end up contaminating our gene pools. i dont have faith that some ass with a god complex could control where these offspring end up or even their own egos. i like leos the way they are and there seem to be enough diff poss. and even new morphs popping up to avoid needing to hybridize to find somthin new. its bad enough that i couldnt be sure if ive even got a locality and not an integrade...just my 2 cents

I agree but I have one question. What about corsses like jungle carpet pythons and coastal carpet pythons. They are different speices. I DO agree we cant have tainted blood.

once it starts its gonna snowball no doubt about it. but eventually theres probably no hope only postponement.it WILL be impossible to prevent it once it starts in my opinion

hey Gregg where was the other site/pissing match?

I believe it has to do with some egotistical breeder crossing a woma and an Irian Jaya carpet python.

35% eggs were bad and 7% of those that did hatch have died.

was this on kingsnake?

No.
ssnakess.com (sp?)

thanks ill be checkin it out

I believe the breed that you are talking about is NERD with the woma, carpet cross.

This is my stance on hybrids. I like some of them. I'm going to attempt to create a burmese x retic hybrid (bateater) here in the next year or two. Now I believe it was Greg who said that they are made from greed. Thats so wrong. Bob Clark doesn't really attempt to make bats anymore because he loses money everytime he trys to produce them. The chances of getting a retic and burm to mate is slim. Then to have any viable offspring is even slimer. Then when you finally do have some luck you only produce a few. If you choose to sell any you will only get 2,000 - 5,000 bucks for one. Say you only have 3 hatch and sell them them at 5 grand thats 15 grand. Say you breed the orginal strain retic albinos together and have 40 viable babies and they sell at 1,500 a piece right now. The clutch is worth 60,000 dollars. It makes no sense to say that they are made from greed they are made out of love for the hobby.

You also commented on the fear of them contaminating the gene pool. Thats not realistic. With Bateaters nearly all other hybrids they are generally steril. Even attempting to breed a fertile bateater to either burm or retic isn't cake walk either. NERD is the only one that have created Jungle retics, 25% burm, 75% retic. Let me tell you they are awsome.

Then you touch base on the fact that we don't know whats going on with hybrids inner workings and they will surly suffer from it. Okay lets take a step back and think about the leos we prize the most, albinos. that is a huge defect that affects their health. Please don't tell me your worryed about their quality of life of hybrids when you own and breed albinos of any species. Also a handful of members on the BC fourm and Constrictors fourm own bateaters and from what I know haven't had any problems.

Please don't get me wrong I am against most crosses but not hybrids.

have fun lynching me