Please share Candoia breeding experiences

I'm looking for experiences on how people have kept various neonate Candoia species, and their survival rate.

Here's my sad story to start:

I've had three litters of C.b.bibroni (Fiji Boa) pass through my hands - one from a wild caught gravid female born in the place I got my first three snakes, one born in my own tank, and one born to some friends' captive snakes.

I fed mine after a month (f/t gecko tails to start, and later on small geckos), my friends started feeding (live geckos) straight away.

In every case all ate well and seemed healthy for the first 5 - 6 months and then the majority of the babies died after refusing food, regurgitating, and eventually convulsing. In fact I only know of one survivor from the litter of 13 that my own snake had.

My female is gravid again and will probably give birth in May. Obviously I'd like the babies to survive. I'm looking for any tips on conditions / feeding / survival rate etc that you may be able to give me from your own experience.

I'm thinking maybe humidity could be a factor - they were kept in normal Fiji atmospheric conditions, in open-air tubs, with newspaper and dried fern as substrate, and bathing-size water bowls. I'm wondering if they need to be wetter? Maybe in saturated fern substrate? The time of year they are born here is the wet season: perhaps they naturally spend the first few months of their lives curled up in crevices while it rains on them.

Looking for clues..........

A few photos from when they were feeding OK - about 2 months old. (Except for the one on the scales, which was the tiniest runt when new born - 7 grams!)

They are very cool critters,what a privilege to work with them where you do

Originally Posted by Metachrosis

They are very cool critters,what a privilege to work with them where you do

Of course to the locals it's just "those snakes" but to me they are very special. And VERY even tempered - the large female I have at present was "Wild Caught" by a 9 year old boy just walking into the bush and picking her up.....

Love this species!!! Thanks for sharing some pics.

Originally Posted by Helenthereef

I'm looking for experiences on how people have kept various neonate Candoia species, and their survival rate.

Here's my sad story to start:

I've had three litters of C.b.bibroni (Fiji Boa) pass through my hands - one from a wild caught gravid female born in the place I got my first three snakes, one born in my own tank, and one born to some friends' captive snakes.

I fed mine after a month (f/t gecko tails to start, and later on small geckos), my friends started feeding (live geckos) straight away.

In every case all ate well and seemed healthy for the first 5 - 6 months and then the majority of the babies died after refusing food, regurgitating, and eventually convulsing. In fact I only know of one survivor from the litter of 13 that my own snake had.

My female is gravid again and will probably give birth in May. Obviously I'd like the babies to survive. I'm looking for any tips on conditions / feeding / survival rate etc that you may be able to give me from your own experience.

I'm thinking maybe humidity could be a factor - they were kept in normal Fiji atmospheric conditions, in open-air tubs, with newspaper and dried fern as substrate, and bathing-size water bowls. I'm wondering if they need to be wetter? Maybe in saturated fern substrate? The time of year they are born here is the wet season: perhaps they naturally spend the first few months of their lives curled up in crevices while it rains on them.

Looking for clues..........

In a case like this a trip to the vet should always be considered
1. your dealing with WC animals, therefore parasites, viruses, etc.... while not physically revealing themselves may have been a benefactor to their deaths.
2. There are more and more viruses being discovered every year and this is definitely a hot topic among leading exotic vets in the country so i am pleading do not rule this out without proper testing from a qualified vet.
3. Im assuming the geckos your feeding are wc as well, this is another obvious risk of parasite infection to your animals, while it is necessary it is still however a risk when keeping these animals.
4. I know it it possible to raise them up to point where they are able to eat rodents so its best to work on getting them towards this goal.
5. As far as humidity i think people make this too complicated. Mist them daily ensuring proper hydration, w/e that may be as it depends upon the individual animal, not the collective species (though obviously there is a guideline).
6. Follow a strict protocol on tub soakings to ensure proper hydration if hydration is truly a concern.
7. I may sound like broken record, but again, take them to a vet....

You're completely right, and if there was a vet who knew anything about reptiles in the country I'd certainly do it. Unfortunately Fijian vets concentrate on cows and pigs, and the SPCA runs without a vet for much of the time, getting short term overseas vets in to do cat and dog neutering when they can. There was one vet who did manage to do surgery on a snake (removing a damaged eye) but she's moved on, and I don't think she'd have had much info on reptile diseases.

This is one of the things that had made this forum so valuable to me; a source of advice and others' experiences when I'm pretty much out here in a vacuum, so I really appreciate hearing other people's stories and ideas.

My female should be thinking of dropping her litter fairly soon - by my calculations early to mid May, and I'm going to try two things:

1. MUCH more humid conditions - last time I relied on our normal atmospheric conditions (80 - 85 % or higher most days) plus, of course a bathing bowl, but had them on dry newspaper substrate. This year I'm going for a wet paper towel or cloth substrate and wet sphagnum moss (with climbing branches so they don't HAVE to sit wet) for at least the first few weeks, and misting.

2. Keep them on parts (tails, back legs) of larger geckos rather than whole small geckos for as long as I can in the hopes of avoiding gut-based parasites. I didn't seem to have trouble until I started them on entire geckos last time.

I don't have a source of clean feeder rodents, but when they are big enough, I move them onto day old chicks, supplemented by frozen chicken portions for a bit more muscle mass. This seems to work well, the difficulty is they take a couple of years to get large enough to take chicks, so the middle phase is a range of gecko sizes, plus sometimes small pieces of chicken designed for human consumption. Obviously they eat wild-caught geckos when they are in the wild themselves, but it is possible that only few of them make it to maturity in the wild.

From what you, and others I have contacted are saying, they do not seem to have a low survival rates when bred in "Real World" captivity, which is one of the things I wanted to know. It's possible that in the wild they simply do not all survive - that's often the case with animals that have large numbers of offspring at a time.

Now I just have to work out how best to tread the line between wild mortality and better captive conditions.

Thanks for the interest, looking forward to hearing how your Candoia are going.

Hi Helen,

As you know, this complex comes from a warm & humid environment. In you're keeping them there in Fiji, you're room temperature is ideal. As far as any parasites, I dunno. These babies eat frogs, geckos, etc. Candoia carinata paulsoni have huge litters of small neonates which translates into lower survival rate. Cuban Boas (Epicrates angulifer) have small litters of very large offspring. By investing more resources in bigger babies, nature should allow a higher rate of survival. Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head. I'm having to forcefeed a few of my newborn paulsoni since they've refused anoles, geckos, & tree frogs. What we do for our herps.

Jay

Roy Stockwell Breeds Candoia here in Canada. He has never fed his babys anoles, frogs or geckos. He start's them all with a pinky pump then switches them over to mice.
He has not lost many babys with this method.

He has alot of posts about his Candoia on the Reptiles Canada forum.
Sadly he has sold most of his solomon boas over the years and now only keeps one pair of white Candoia.

He has also metioned that he still gets great breeding results with just the one male in the past.

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09-29-2007, 06:02 PM#1




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts


Solomon boas born today



Here's a new born litter of Candoia carinata paulsoni. It's been a couple years since I had a litter, but here we go again... Shoestring time..
I've been breeding this species for about 20 years.. These are F3 or F4, I've lost track but the adults were produced by me, from ones produced here, and so on.
This is a very young female that produced this litter... She is pictured here in the "cage" she was raised in, which is only a shoebox Rubbermaid, as a size indicator, the water bowl is a Dollarama ramakin bowl, the 2 for a buck size.
Some of the babies have cool patterns.
There were 16 babies, one slug.. One baby is kinked but there are 15 good ones.

I have loads of experience raising this species.. You don't even try to feed them on their own till xmas. Babies eat jumping frogs in the wild, and that is
pretty hard to emulate in captivity, so I don't bother even trying.
They go straight on the pinky pump, with Fancy Feast beef and liver cat food. I've been doing it that way for years. (pinkies are too valuable.. need them for my rubber boas)
Most will be eating pinkies by the spring after their second or third shed.











Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 06:05 PM#2




speckledmind









Location: 2 Klicks from downtown OttawaPosts: 1,604Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






Congrats.

This one sure looks nice and tempting






Originally Posted by Roy Stockwell





Regards, Denis


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09-29-2007, 06:05 PM#3




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


conratulations



very nice, Roy.

definitely some intriguing patterns among them.


"Judge not the whole individual by one facet alone, lest ye be deemed none too bright." - uuum, I just made it up, I did.


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09-29-2007, 06:07 PM#4




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts






The colour in Candoia doesn't really come in until they are a year or two old... you get subtle hints sometimes in the babies but you wont recognize them two years from now... most of these will contain black white and reddish hues, similar to Mom
That one with the wide stripe, will likely be a more reddish one, which should look fantastic with that wide stripe down the back.


Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 08:09 PM#5




mitchkranz










Location: Calgary, AlbertaPosts: 1,401Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






amazing babies congrats!!!


Mitch K
www.betterboa.com


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09-29-2007, 08:12 PM#6




bistrobob85










Location: South Shore of MontrealPosts: 963Thanks: 0Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts






Congratulations, Roy . Oh, also, your PM box is full.

phil.

Last edited by bistrobob85; 09-29-2007 at 08:23 PM.


-- Manticore Importations --
Recruiting for the Canadian Progressive Herpetology
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09-29-2007, 08:58 PM#7




Fritz Reptiles










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Really cool looking babies ! Congrats !!


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09-29-2007, 09:33 PM#8




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


your pm is still full, bra



Do you happen to have a pic of the male that sired them, Roy. I mean, after all he deserves some recognition for the achievement : )


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09-29-2007, 09:44 PM#9




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts











Originally Posted by pool

Do you happen to have a pic of the male that sired them, Roy. I mean, after all he deserves some recognition for the achievement : )
I have 2 small black and white high contrast males... It could have been either one of them.. I had both males with her.



Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 09:46 PM#10




Zoe










Location: Ottawa, OntarioPosts: 2,656Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






I, too, would like to see some pics of papa! I know I'm jumping the gun, but when can I buy one?

How long is the female? Nice big litter, eh?

PS, pool, good call on your prediction of Roy's babies!


"Who" is used as the subject: "Who gave you a ride to the reptile expo?" You can often substitute "he" or "she" for "who".
"Whom" is for an object: "With whom did you go to the expo?"


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09-29-2007, 09:59 PM#11




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts






Look up Zoe... the pics are there Could have been either one or both of those males... they look almost the same anyways. They all live in shoeboxes, so they aren't very big.. How bigs a shoebox..? a foot long. The female is bigger than the males but still under 2 feet I think... they bite, so I don't mess with them much


Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 10:18 PM#12




Zoe










Location: Ottawa, OntarioPosts: 2,656Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






Well I guess I should look into breeding my female some day, then. She's almost 3 feet long.
Yours bite? Hm. Mine are ultra placid.
Anyway, congrats on the lovely litter!

Last edited by Zoe; 09-29-2007 at 10:22 PM.


"Who" is used as the subject: "Who gave you a ride to the reptile expo?" You can often substitute "he" or "she" for "who".
"Whom" is for an object: "With whom did you go to the expo?"


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09-29-2007, 10:21 PM#13




D. Pogue









Posts: 670Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Is biting bad........??








Originally Posted by Roy Stockwell

they bite, so I don't mess with them much
Isn't that the best part??

Or is it just me??

That's the only way my Spilotes/Bloods/Yellowtails/Gonyosoma/Cavers can show their unconditional love ........

D.

ps - save some babies for yours truly, Roy .

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09-29-2007, 10:34 PM#14




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






My adults are generally placid, but sometimes bite ( FWIW they originated from Roy, were raised by yourself, Don and passed onto me by DON OLTEAN ) Same temperament with the "black" Candoia.


I agree - their nature is part of their appeal. I don't handle them much, in part, 'cause I like them that way.

What's up with people selling off their Candoia only to seek out more shortly thereafter. I noticed Jay J also had a wanted add for Candoia recently.

PS what took you so long, Zoe ?

Last edited by pool; 09-29-2007 at 10:40 PM.


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09-29-2007, 11:44 PM#15




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts











Originally Posted by D. Pogue

Isn't that the best part??

Or is it just me??

That's the only way my Spilotes/Bloods/Yellowtails/Gonyosoma/Cavers can show their unconditional love ........

D.

ps - save some babies for yours truly, Roy .
Yeah, Don I keep telling people "Snakes bite... period" but everyone thinks I'm wrong. I got chomped by 3 corn snakes today... and that mother Candoia, and both the males... (during the photos)
The only thing I touch without gloves or hooks are my Rubber boas and Calabars... so far they are the only species that don't jump out of their bins when I slide them open. I've been bit by lots of Ball Pythons, childrens pythons and all those other "tame" species too.
My snakes are not pets and don't normally get held... They get to know there is only one reason their trays slide open. Keeping them from hitting the floor, being catapulted into the closest, and/or breaking teeth off in my clothing or flesh are ongoing challenges
Maybe snakes just don't like me, or perhaps I need more experience

Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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I will try to copy and paste some of his posts. Hopefully it works!!!

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