WHAT DO YOU THINK........

HI ALL,
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PRACTICES OF SOME IMPORTERS BRINGING IN REPTILES THAT THEY KNOW WERE
FROM A PROTECTED AREA??
EXAMPLE:
THEY KNEW THAT THEY SNAKE "A" WAS WILD CAUGHT IN
A PROTECTED AREA THAT DOESNT ALLOW EXPORTING AND
SMUGGLED ACROSS TO SOMEWHERE THAT DOES. THEN IT
WAS MIS-LABELED AS BEING FROM THE "LEGAL EXPORTING"
COUNTRY SO THAT IT COULD BE BROUGHT INTO THE US.

DO YOU APPROVE , OR DISAPPROVE OF IMPORTERS THAT
KNOWINGLY PARTICIPATE IN THIS? LET ME KNOW WHAT YOUR
THOUGHTS ARE.

GOD BLESS!!!
BEN SPARKS
C.R.C. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Since this would be an illegal and unethical act I would say disapprove. Now the hard part would be proving this happened.

WHAT IF THE IMPORTED ALREADY STATED THAT HE KNEW THIS WHAT WAS BEING PRACTICED ?:?

BEN SPARKS
C.R.C. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Your going to base your business on a supplier that may dry up overnight? How about one that brings the authorities to your business as fallout when they work their way down the chain? Seems to me smart business would be to find a better supplier. Course I'm not out for a quick buck and am looking longer term. Read the newspapers, your seeing fallout for very similiar business choices almost on a daily basis. Executives using the same business practices as &quot;it's not my business how they get them&quot; school of thought are facing criminal charges. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

TRUST ME, I'M NOT LOOKING TO BE DOING ANY BUSINESS
WITH THIS COMPANY. HOWEVER; THEY ARE ONE OF THE MOST ESTABLISHED IN THE HERP INDUSTRY. I JUST WONDERED WHAT PEOPLES OPINIONS WERE.

GOD BLESS
BEN <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

VAGUE.......AMBIGUOUS.....MISLEADING.........DISHO NEST


These are but a few titles that neatly fit the descroption of several importers that are out there now. Ben, you said that they are one of the &quot;Biggest&quot; &nbsp;importers in this industry, as well they may be. And they make the most money, that is for sure eh?

But , sooner or later, the wrongness of their deeds and the manner they conduct their business in wil come to light.

I hear you, reading this and saying to your self &quot;Yeah, right, they have been doing this for YEARS without any major derailment.

And all I am trying to say to you, is that the derailment for their little train is comeing.
Do you want to be onboard when it does.

We all sin, we all cheat, we all lie. Everyone of us. Yes, everyone of us.
Only not on such a wholesale scale and not so frequently and for such a great degree of profit.

I wouldnt deal with them if I were you Ben, I wouldnt buy from them. But then I am a very rebellious person by nature, and resist doing what everyone else does as much as I can. Which nowadays means resisiting doing ANYTHING to make a buck, even getting into bed with suppliers that are not only unethical but illegal in their actions. NOWADAYS, what your witnessing is commonplace, the lieing, cheating and above all the:

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DISREGARD FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES LAWS

I cant tell you the number of people that in the long ago past have offered me w/c Eastern Indigos(Fed Protected, illegal to take or touch in native habitat) These people had no more moral problem with selling me a protected species with a Threatened status than I would have selling you a cornsnake.
I did not ever take any of these people up on their offers, I found it disturbing that they didnt care about the snakes themselves, but just in makeing a buck. Thank God they dont contact me anymore.
And thats what it comes down to, are you most concerned about makeing money in this industry? Because if you are then you are reading the wrongs guys post,I havent made diddley squat!

I would find another supplier.


Fred Albury
Aztec Reptiles

I dont like it for a couple of reasons.

I will say this off the bat. &nbsp;I think I like the idea of &quot;protected areas&quot; a lot better than just &quot;protected species&quot;. &nbsp;In general, the biggest reason for a species decline is habitat loss, not collecting. &nbsp;Protect an area and you are prohibiting building in that area, hence giving the species an area to thrive. &nbsp;Just protect the species, you are saying that no one can collect it and sell it without a permit, but a lot of the time, natural habitats are just built upon and the animals would have been better off being collected. &nbsp;In my opinion that is the way to go--then after a period of time as species flourish, even collecting in limitted numbers in these areas may be possible. &nbsp;

Now someone going into these protected areas and scooping up critters to take to a non-protected area definitely defeats the purpose. &nbsp;If you are allowed to collect these species elsewhere and chose to do it in a protected area, I see it as pure laziness and disregard for the species and conservation ethics. &nbsp;And, like Daniel said, it's hard to prove. &nbsp;Also, if these animals then go into the pet trade, it is likely that someone who may care about the status of these animals is unknowingly participating in an act that they may disapprove of. &nbsp;I know I'd be pissed. &nbsp;That is misrepresentation on top of being illegal.

I know it gets done all the time. &nbsp;I would want nothing to do with these people. &nbsp;I don’t care how “big” they are. &nbsp;So who is it? &nbsp;

It's no wonder we have groups like hsus all over us, there are a bunch of shmoes in this biz.

Dana

interesting related topic...
did any of you read this week's herp digest article about wildlife smuggling within established arms and drug related smuggling rings? Russian mafia, cartel, etc...
a couple lovely highlights--finding a live boa with an &quot;unnatural bulge&quot; in it belly, only to find it had been force fed condoms full of cocaine. &nbsp;
trading smuggled australian birds for heroin in bankok.
lovely!
btw, I'm not insinuating that the importers brought up in this thread have anything to do with this...just a related subject.
dana

HI DANA AND FRED AND DANIEL,

WELP, I'LL PROBABLY GET NAILED FOR THIS BUT &quot;OH WELL&quot;.
I THINK ITS SOMEHTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.
A WHILE BACK SOMEONE ON A KINGSNAKE.COM FORUM THREAD MADE A COMMENT ABOUT BEN SEIGEL BEING OUT FOR A QUICK BUCK. &nbsp;BEN SEIGEL ENDING UP REPLYING WITH A
LOOONG STATEMENT WHERE HE WENT OVER EVERYTHING FROM HOW HE STARTED WITH A 4000$ BUSINESS LOAN TO
WHERE HE IS LIVING COMFORTABLY TODAY. THE GUY (I DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS) WHO MADE THE STATEMENT FELT
THAT BEEN WAS MIS-REPRESENTING LOCAL BOAS. I THINK IT
WAS WHEN THE &quot;LETICIA&quot; BUZ STARTED GOING A FEW MONTHS BACK. IN SEIGELS REPLY HE STATED THAT HE KNEW
THAT BOAS WERE SMUGGLED OUT OF PROTECTED AREAS IN
SOUTH AMERICA AND BROUGHT TO PLACES LIKE GUYANA WHERE THEY COULD BE EXPORTED BUT LABELED AS &quot;GUYANAN
REDTAILS&quot;. &nbsp;SEIGEL WAS SAYING THAT &quot;SURE HE KNEW THEY
WERE FROM DIFFERENT (AND SOMETIMES PROTECTED) LOCALS BUT HE DIDNT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BEING ABLE TO SELL THEM FOR A HIGHER PRICE. HE SOLD THEM AS THEY WERE LABELED AS THEY CAME IN.
&nbsp;WHAT GOT ME WAS HOW HE SAID HE KNEW OF THE PRACTICE GOING ON BUT DIDNT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. YET
HE STILL IMPORTS SNAKES HE KNOWS ARE COMING FROM PROTECTED AREAS LIKE BRAZIL ?? &nbsp;I DONT KNOW IF NOBODY ELSE CAUGHT IT IN HIS STATEMENT OR WHAT BUT ITS BEEN
PLAGUING MY MIND EVER SINCE. MAYBE THERE ARE SOME FACTS OR SOMETHING I'M MISSING OR NOT UNDERSTANDING
BUT IT SEEMED PRETTY EASY TO UNDERSTAND.
&nbsp;WELP, NOW YA KNOW. IF YA FEEL LIKE FLAMING PLEASE GO GENTLE, I'M JUST HERE TO LEARN LIKE MOST OF YOU.

GOD BLESS TO ALL,
BEN SPARKS
C.R.C.

I don't agree with any importer knowingly accepting animals that are illegaly collected. &nbsp;

As &quot;collectors&quot; we have to realize, however that the chances that any WC was collected in less than optimum circumstances is pretty high.

As for the whole &quot;Leticia&quot; thing...I'll say it again...they are still b.c.i. &nbsp;Just because they ship out of Leticia (technically a south colombian) doesn't make them special. &nbsp;There are great looking boas from all over South and Central America. &nbsp;If I caught an ugly a$$ boa in the Guyanas, it's still ugly! : )

Jason Royer