How do you "train" your dragon?

Many of the animals I keep, I like to keep on the “wild” side, meaning, they don’t have to be “tame” for me to enjoy them. In fact, the only time I would need to handle them is for cleaning and that sort of thing. I instead derive my enjoyment from just watching them be themselves.

This being said, some of my other animals I want to/need to be able to handle safely and often around other people. I have a newer Sumatran Water Monitor that is very feisty. He is also on the larger side- just over 5.5 feet. I have never had too many problems with getting an animal to settle down and get used to being moved, carried and held. I usually just do this over a long period of time and have developed a small arsenal of tricks to help along the way.

I want to know how you go about “taming”/acclimating your monitors to handling. What works for you, or has not?

I had some success with Moggie(Blackthroat adult monitor) with tapping her tongs on the floor to alert her that I'm going to feed her. I never fed her unless I tapped the tongs. Eventually she associated the tapping with feeding, and it lessened her food response outside of the stimulus(when I wasn't tapping the tongs).

The issue with training is that it is generally done with either reward or punishment. Most people would prefer to use a reward system to train an animal.. but what do you use as a reward with a monitor lizard? If you use food, you just get a feeding response.. not a link to a reward. Generally they don't want petted(even when they tolerate it), so.. it's difficult to find a reward to use to train.

The best I do with Moggie is to use operant conditioning to get her to respond, then extinguish 'off cue' behavior.

I would have to agree. With some of my monitors I have had success with handling them, and when they are put back in the cage, they have food waiting. This seems to be a good method, and they then associate handling with food at the end.

The problem is, how do you reward good behaviour while handling. The last thing I want to do when I am holding an unruly monitor is to put it down. Thats what they want, and you are just re-inforcing that bad behaviour. With the new sumtran, I don't want to take this approach though- he is so aggressive that I fear I would stress him out, and he would not eat when put back in the cage.

I have also used the tongs to signal food or handling. My minotors and burms know that if I rest the tongs or hooks on their back, that they are going to be picked up. The more I work with the monitors and tegu's, I find that they have a keen intelligence. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think so. Some studies have been done with monitors and crocodillians, and these did find that one could "train" them, at least to some extent.

As for punishment. Not putting them down until they are calm. You just have to be mindful of the stress quotient then.

Wow, this is a great thread. I am a newbie, but so far, i found my baby V. tristis to have some type of an intelligent. They are very watchful at the things that i do around their cage and they all have their own personality.

One of them doesn't like me, so when i put my hand near him, he would just run and hide. the other two doesn't mind it. the other two would even take food from my hand when i offer it close to them. They would also allow me to pet them with my finger. I think that i would knock on their cage from now on before i feed them, to let them know that it's feeding time. I eventually want them to run over to me when i have food to offer. what i noticed is that when i want to pick them up, the two that would allow me to get close, i would touch their tail and then lightly pick them up by gliding my fingers starting at the base of the tail. they don't like it when I grab them by the head or upper body area.

Monitors do react to the manner in which they are handled. I agree 100% JSUN. If you were to grab your monitor, especially the smaller ones, closer to the head, they would engage their flight response. If a predator grabbed a monitor, it would most likely try to control its head. By contrast, with some monitors I have had, and especially a BW Tegu I have, I can "disengage" their hunting/food response by tapping, or touching the tops of their heads. This usually makes them back up and re-think their position. This is usually my response when they charge the front of the cage during water changes and the like.

As far as smaller monitors go, they key is to making them feel safe. They tend to be more flighty than aggressive. Do all in your power to allow their inquisitive nature to take over. What this means is, handling them in such a manner that they don’t feel too restrained, and can “explore” you as much as you them. For this I have sat in the bath tub with some baby Sav’s before. As a side note, I was once privy to a situation where a man used a large old sock to play tug of war with his savannah. This he did on a routine basis. One day, during the game, he stood up to answer the phone. When he came back…sock was gone. Even though the Savannah won the game, he ended up losing ‘cause he swallowed the sock! The story does have a happy ending. The sock was removed by the Vet without any lasting damage. But this tale should bring to mind that one should use some sense none the less.

I do not really train my animals or tame them. I just let them do their own thing. The reason is every monitor is 100% different from the other in personality and even with trying will not calm and be receptive to human handling. And even a 100% receptive and calm animal can and does have their bad days where they do not feel like interacting and it's up to the keep to heed these warnings (if given) before they get bit.

I do clicker train the medium and large monitors for feeding time as it keeps things safe for everyone. They learn this really quick and some don't even need the clicker now to know when it's meal time just a visual of the tongs. However my small species picked up on this and have also learned extremely quickly and now are trained to respond to the clicker and /or tongs.

Other then that their allowed to interact with me of their own accord and if they want to. When given the choice most won't come near the human keeper without influencing them with food.

More like "how does you dragon "train" you?"
You need to be on their terms. It takes time. Monitors are curious and when they realize you are not a threat, they will come to investigate. Watch their body language and listen to their vocalization. They let you know when they are not comfortable. Forced handling does not tame them. They simply give up fighting.

Originally Posted by RMKrugel

Many of the animals I keep, I like to keep on the “wild” side, meaning, they don’t have to be “tame” for me to enjoy them. In fact, the only time I would need to handle them is for cleaning and that sort of thing. I instead derive my enjoyment from just watching them be themselves.

This being said, some of my other animals I want to/need to be able to handle safely and often around other people. I have a newer Sumatran Water Monitor that is very feisty. He is also on the larger side- just over 5.5 feet. I have never had too many problems with getting an animal to settle down and get used to being moved, carried and held. I usually just do this over a long period of time and have developed a small arsenal of tricks to help along the way.

I want to know how you go about “taming”/acclimating your monitors to handling. What works for you, or has not?

You obviously are working from the wrong end of things starting with a 5+ ft monitor and expecting it to become manageable in the presence of other people.

What do you define as safe? In my mind its a caged monitor no matter how much I trust it around myself or others, the potential for something to go wrong is just too high.

Otherwise in your case I would suggest you begin by getting it to trust you, typical non threatening handling methods work best for me. Then in a progressive manner add other people to the area simply as distractions. You should be able to determine if this particular water is cut out for your needs and expectations.

They don't all cope with human interaction as well as we might like no matter how you 'train' them.

The important thing here is to judge the monitors suitability to do what you expect, if you think it might be safe around people then by all means work on perfecting its behavior.

Maurice Pudlo

Originally Posted by MauricesExoticPets

You obviously are working from the wrong end of things starting with a 5+ ft monitor and expecting it to become manageable in the presence of other people.

What do you define as safe? In my mind its a caged monitor no matter how much I trust it around myself or others, the potential for something to go wrong is just too high.

Otherwise in your case I would suggest you begin by getting it to trust you, typical non threatening handling methods work best for me. Then in a progressive manner add other people to the area simply as distractions. You should be able to determine if this particular water is cut out for your needs and expectations.

They don't all cope with human interaction as well as we might like no matter how you 'train' them.

The important thing here is to judge the monitors suitability to do what you expect, if you think it might be safe around people then by all means work on perfecting its behavior.

Maurice Pudlo

I do not necessarily need this particular monitor to become "tame or safe". My larger water monitor was simply an example as part of this thread, and to state what I’ll be doing. It would be nice to chronicle the progress and to see to what extent this particular monitor can be acclimated to human interaction by incorporating different techniques. I have had many positive experiences in the past with various species.

I do many reptile educational presentations and other related work, and often have animals at schools or on sets. I do not need all my animals to be “tame” and in fact like most of them to be as natural as possible, since this is also often required. Safe, in my previous post, would be the ability to handle the animal with a small certainty of how the animal will react in specific situations, and a relative predictability. Of course, in handling any species, you are always prepared and expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. Safe is knowing that you are capable of handling both sides of that spectrum with regards to the particular specimen you are handling.

I would strongly agree that many monitors are highly distinctive with regard to their personalities and temperament. For the most part, I am just interested in seeing what other keepers have done, and prescribe. I have used various techniques in the past, but am cognizant of the fact that a monitor or in fact, most reptiles will never be “tame”. I’m totally okay with this too.

As an aside, I have had a mixed bag with animals of varying ages. Some adult or sub adults have turned into some of the most manageable animals I have had the good fortune of working with, while others acquired as hatchlings or even produced by me, have always been nervous or even aggressive to varying degrees.

I find the best method with monitors is the non threatening handling methodology which aids you in building a trusting relationship with the monitor. Once you become a non issue to the monitor keen observation of its reactions to certain situations allows you to develop your own reactions that answer those of the monitor.

Obviously this is more a train the trainer method than train the monitor methodology.

Being observant of the non threatening rule is the key to making this work. Most monitors could care less about that which they find not to be a threat, this is the foundation from which we build what looks like tameness.

Monitors are often curious animals and will come to you out of interest in what you are, so long as you aren't a threat to them. This is the most effective way to judge boldness, in my opinion. A monitor that comes to realize you are alive and moves directly to a fight response is more scared than bold, the one that moves to a flight response is workable if it regains its curiosity of you, the best situation would be the monitor that will acknowledge your being a larger living being but not react as if you are potential food, and not show either the fight or flight response. This is the type of boldness you want to work with to make effective progress.

From there you can progress into limit testing, finding out where the monitor begins to show either the beginnings of fight or flight. When you do find a limit, go back to the most recent non threatening actions immediately so as to regain full trust of the monitor and show it that the action was not a real threat. With time and the proper monitor, the limits will shift in a positive direction.

Your ability to recognize the start of fight or flight reactions will be the largest factor in how well you are able to employ this method. I'm not sure how to teach that skill, experience seems to be the best teacher.

Maurice Pudlo