is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

Good post Gary O. Suttle differences in our opinions, but in general the same. It is one thing to be offering constructive critisims and anyone can contact the ARK and give input. But if you don't donate or support, don't complain. It's kind of like if you didn't vote; you can't complain too much about who's in office.
I see it we now have two factions in reagrds to this issue. While both would prefre no regulation; only one is adamant and unbending on that. The other says only if we regulate ourselves and write the rules should we have these laws.
The days of selling african rocks to teenagers just to make a quick buck are over. I see most of the anti-regulation (even if by keeper for keeper) arguments coming from that type that fall in that category. The guys who tell newbies it only gets as big as it's cage. We need to purge them out anyway. Some of their peers in the 'no regs' crowd are not like them and only scared of any government involvement; even if it's just the rule making process. They have been fed things like 'USARK is working with HSUS to compromise' to keep them on egde and that is not right.
If we learn from the past we will see the bird groups (pet and falconry) have drafted regulations for kepers by keepers. Something to consider.

Originally Posted by Taking Up Serpents

Good post Gary O. Suttle differences in our opinions, but in general the same. It is one thing to be offering constructive critisims and anyone can contact the ARK and give input. But if you don't donate or support, don't complain. It's kind of like if you didn't vote; you can't complain too much about who's in office.
I see it we now have two factions in reagrds to this issue. While both would prefre no regulation; only one is adamant and unbending on that. The other says only if we regulate ourselves and write the rules should we have these laws.
The days of selling african rocks to teenagers just to make a quick buck are over. I see most of the anti-regulation (even if by keeper for keeper) arguments coming from that type that fall in that category. The guys who tell newbies it only gets as big as it's cage. We need to purge them out anyway. Some of their peers in the 'no regs' crowd are not like them and only scared of any government involvement; even if it's just the rule making process. They have been fed things like 'USARK is working with HSUS to compromise' to keep them on egde and that is not right.
If we learn from the past we will see the bird groups (pet and falconry) have drafted regulations for kepers by keepers. Something to consider.

That is the thing bro.... You should not have to pay to be part of it. This guy did pay and he is complaining about something but people that have not paid are telling him he is wrong. So in your way this thread is messed up....

I say membership to fight for our hobby should be free. It cost nothing to send an email out. These people can help in different ways.

Also Andrew was note voted in.... so people will have issues with that in itself.

This was a group built by Andrew and it is our only outlet. There is no choice... The peoples voice really in total does not matter. If Andrew or someone else does not like their view then it is thrown to the side.

Membership to USARK should be FREE. And people DONATE what they CAN if the CAN.... It should not matter if you sent money into the system.

IN The USA.... We have to pay taxes you can choose to vote or not.

USARK you do not get to vote but you are not part of it unless you pay money....

One forces you to pay the other forces the leader on you.....

Not saying it is bad. I am saying somethings also need to change a bit on both sides.

When you represent the people you have to hear the people. It is a must. If you do not have time to hear them then you can not represent them correctly.

We all need to step back and start helping instead of defending. If someone has an idea instead of saying " Andrew did not say it or think of it so it is garbage" think about it and see if it will trully help.


But again.... Membership should not cost. In todays world families are struggling to keep their homes. 10 bucks means the world to them. Does not mean they do not have an opinion. MONEY does not mean you or more important. AND THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE USA!

Also do not think I am 1005 against USARK. I think overall they stand for great things. But I also think the workload is spread to thin and sometimes things are not fought for because there is no time or energy... Or man power

Think about how much opening up membership would help. There might be a group of people that could not pay but could sit at a show and hand out flyers and talk to people.... They could help with a website or ANYTHING.

IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY

I am going to help in WI as a friend emailed me last night.... I am not doing this for me.... As I no longer own a large snake or a venomous snake. I own 5 snakes total. Everyone here that knows me knows I use to own thousands of animals....

I stand and I will fight because it is the right thing to do.

So I ask everyone... what have you done? What way can you make this system better.

I do not want anyone to feel I am saying this so you follow me... I never want anyone to follow me. I want you all to stand next to me as one voice... One group.... to knock this stuff out of the water........

I offered an opinion that says people can help other ways then sending money. Let me list a few.

1) call Show promoters ask them if they have a USARK or table set up to educate the public on these matters. 99.9% of the time the promoter will let you have the table free if you are not selling anything and it is truly to educate and take donations.

Start an email list for locale education on this. Email lists are old but work. With places like GMAIL. It is so easy to start a list. Have a few people gathering info and sendingit out over a city or county.

Help others that get confused with websites and sending a letter.

Give your opinion on how to make USARK better.

Get meetings going in your area.

The list is endless to things you can do that will not cost you money. And I think that membership to USARK should be free.

In the meeting my friend messaged me about I will be bringing all this up.

We need to get organized. It is not Andrew's fault that we are starting to see things fall apart a bit with info not getting to everyone. He is only one man. We all need to get off our high horse and say it is time to build something that even our own government will say WOW....

The time to do it was yesterday... but we need to do it now.

here is what I think we need.

1) Andrew President of USARK needs to form a USARK Main Board. With atleast 5 to 10 members. Each having a specific Job. Like Treasure, Law, Fund Raising Ect....

2)State level Presidents with board of 5 to 10 people. Set up just like national.

3) Smaller groups with chapter head only. Set up like this
Chapter Head
Members

These chapter heads will make meetings in local areas and they get their infor from state boards. State boards get into from their state and National USARK

This is just a base idea. There is ton that can happen with it and we would be a force to be recon with. We can then have things like Yearling state meetings. And maybe a meeting with the national board every year to at one of the big 5 shows. Shoot with the internet we can not chat face to face and never leave our homes.

The only thing stoping all this is DRIVE on our part

I undertsand completely Gary. But we have to fund lobbyist, lawyers, economists that estimated the value of the industry. These thing are not cheap and necessary when battling in DC. Then there is the overhead of travel expenses and stationary. We also can't expect one guy to sacrifice most of his collection and time to do these things without being compensated. Especially if all of the focus is running the organization and he doesn't even have time to work a full time or part time job to make ends. I have donated money and when I was short, I donated animals to the auctions. Zoo Med has matched dollars raised and most of this is on their dime.
When someone buys a new snake for several hundred (especially something like a burm or hot) and then complains about membership fees with USARK it irks me. I'm not saying that's you, not atll friend. But they are out there. Just isn't right in my eyes.
I know of what's going on in WI as well. We may be talking to the same friend as I know fo one guy up there that isgetting seriously involved. Not saying there's only one in WI, just only one person I know.
Like you Gary; it's not about what I have and where I live. It's about my kids and everyone else's having the opportunity we did to keep. Because when I go, they get my animals. I also frirst hand know how keeping reptile scan change one's life for the better, and not by adding to the bank account, but the soul. I don't want that taken away from the next guy or generation. That's why I'm the way I a over things like this. I'm sure others could find more colorful descriptions though.....haha.

We are on the same page. 100%!!!!

I would like to find a way though to open up membership. I know there are people out there that would take advantage of it though. The reason I brought that up is I know of a few keepers that had good jobs. They had lots of animals. Lots to them maybe 10 to 15. They got layed off and had to settle for a less paying job. They had to get rid of animals to make things meet. They have the same drive as we do. They just put their families first when it comes to money.

I just do not want USARk to turn into what the USA government is. Meaning if you do not pay you do not matter.

Just to let everyone know I am not a member of USARK. I fought tooth and nail every time a bill came around. Will I be a member of USARK probably.

We need to get organized. Right now we are not.

I am in the cub scouts right now with my step son. I pay them 20 bucks a year. I see them spend more then 20 bucks a year on my son. But we as a group find ways to raise funds. I know not the same but it then again is. We do a lot of fund raising.

We need to start within if we want the outside to understand.

Im so sick of hearing people scream about losing there rights... THe Constitution doesnt say anything about giving US citizens the right to own any animal they please..... We arent guaranteed this " right" It isnt a right..... It is a privilege that can and should be taken away if abused..... and when our actions begin to infringe upon the "actual rights" of others..... IE "escaped pets wreaking havoc on a community" then it becomes necessary for big brother to step in..... Unfortunately enough people in our little community have screwed up and created the mess were in today.... Yes reptile stories succumb to media sensationalism easily..... and yes they are an easy platform for politicians to use for a cause..... because theyre snakes... and alot of people fear them..... But thats life and the govenment we have...... The cold hard fact of the matter is..... we would NEVER be facing these issues if idiots hadnt screwed it up for all of us in the past......

Are the big five constrictors Dangerous???

Anyone who says "no" is a complete imbucil and is in denial... .. If a pHd says they arent dangerous then shame on him for using his credentials to give the public a false sense of security..... Let him have a 16 foot retic wrap him up in a feeding accident and then make that comment..... They are most definitely dangerous.... I say that after 16 years of working with retics..... I finally saw the light after getting injured really badly by an adult in an incident that can happen to anyone....... It's kind of like the people that have pet tigers that think they have them tamed ..... they are totally in denial..... Its so easy to get complacent.... especially when you are raising a little baby hatchling and watch it grow...... You get this false sense of security, that you have this special knowlege of these animals that gives you a protection if you will..... but the truth is so far from that.... These are still wild animals... with pretty much one thing on their mind... getting their next meal....

Are plenty of other animals dangerous?? sure.....

Ask yourself this one question..... How would you feel if you had a neighbor that had a bengal tiger in his back yard..... and you had a young child...... would you let your kid play in the back yard???? Do you trust your kids life in the hands of a total stranger... DO you trust the total stranger to keep his tiger in the yard?? I dont see a 20 foot retic as anything different.... II guess I have a change of heart now that I have a little girl..... But suddenly Im more worried about "Our rights to have our children not have to worry about getting eaten by a tropical predator" rather than My "rights to own whatever I so please".........

You can not compare a snake to a tiger or a hosre to a tiger or a horse to a snake....

Why Horses kill more people a year then snakes have in three.........

Cats have killed more kids then snakes have also......

What it is is fear of the unknown.

So I ask you this. People kill more people a year then animals ever have..... When are we banning them.

for the record im not a paying member but i have donated animals for their autions which is basically the same. heres the problem usark and andrew wyatt are the same thing. he is ceo and president. there is no board. we dont have an organization fighting for us we have one guy representing us and a bunch of people sending him money. i will have a a memo in a day or too the was from i believe pijac that was sent to ohio representatives. as soon as i get it i will make it available for everyone.

I do not think Andrew is taking money and not fighting for us. All my ideas are to help him and not put him down. Andrew has not shown any reason to question his morals IMO... I am not saying you can not if you feel the need. I just do not see anything he has done to question his morals.

But anyways.... Lets see where we are in a few weeks