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Old 02-28-2012, 04:22 AM   #31
cousinmike
My bad, I missed the e-mail and text threads above. But, again, how are the animals doing now? Are they getting better/worse? Of course, that is not the point, I understand that, but if they are improving, or even thriving, then your money was not wasted. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong or out of line here.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 06:16 AM   #32
dniles
Mike - you had dealings with Jerry and nothing like this happened? I thought you told me you felt slighted in a trade with him...that he never sent you the animals he promised after you sent him his animals first? Or did he finally live up to his side of the deal?

Dave Niles
 
Old 02-28-2012, 06:22 AM   #33
Mitchell Mulks
Too much risk involved.

You're question of whether it's money not wasted in case they are doing better is a good one, but I think it is $3100 straight down the drain. On KS and even here it sounds like your not sure it's zonata disease, but it is. I'll tell you the same thing I wrote on the other forum...no one knows what causes this disorder. Is it a syndrome? Is it a pathogen? We don't know, but until we do know it is absolutely the best to err on the side of caution and treat it as though it's pathogen-based. Also, it sucks that your colony was wiped out by it. But not all z's displaying classic ZD symptoms perish quickly. I had a friend back in 1999 that had 1.2 adult agalma with it. Only one died, after a half-year struggle, and the other two lived (but the never recovered neurologically, and would always shed every two to three weeks, tie themselves into nots, and crawl on their sides, back arched, continually. It's not a death sentence, but it might as well be. Even if a snake ever recovered, since we don't understand the origin of the disorder, any responsible breeder should never let the snake in question out of his or her collection, as it might still carry a pathogen. I hope this answers your questions and also helps clear the air why Stu is the one that got worked here.

Seeing as how this is a thread where we are allowed to alert the public of the perils associated with Jerry Kruse...I'll do just that. NEVER, for any reason do business with this man. Honestly every person I've known that has has always gotten ripped off or verbally threatened of potential physical assault. I first met Jerry when he sent multiple emails literally begging for free zonata (something he now harps on others as pathetic if they obtain free zonata). I do still have all those emails if anyone would like to see them. Over time I sent Jerry and his family SEVEN FREE ZONATA (I just want to drive this home because Jerry always calls those who accept free zonata pretty horrible names). After receiving those seven snakes, Jerry tried to obtain a CA non-commercial license so I could gift him THIRTY MORE FREE ZONATA. He was denied the permit because law enforcement had no way to regulate his stock. Since his permit was denied I have spoken to two different people, one who has said Jerry told him he was offered the permit but declined to take it, and another person who Jerry told he actually had the permit. Both of these stories are typical Jerry fabrications with no basis in reality. I know he never received the permit because the law enforcement officer who denied his permit told me he had done so. Back to the thirty free snakes Jerry was still excited at trying to obtain from me. It became apparent that Jerry saw me as a source for bolstering his collection at no cost, and when he crossed a line I told him not to cross with me I decided to dissolve our friendship. In Jerry's own words he asked me not to broadcast free zonata because it really makes it hard to sell all of you his snakes. I have that email, and my response to him on my laptop, and I'll post it tomorrow. People, he basically kissed my ass for seven free snakes, was more than happy to take thirty more free snakes, but his selfishness was so great that he wanted no one else to enjoy a free snake. Those are not the qualities of a good person nor someone you can trust. Just after this whole ordeal Jerry them completely broke my trust by claiming an immaculate conception from a snake I caught and gave him, one that he bred to another of a different locale, but sold the offspring as pure. It was at this point that I felt so used that i washed my hands of him. I have since been verbally threatened, texted out of the blue by him with rude and swear-filled messages, and am still apparently eny number one. I'm so much an enemy and such the manipulative mastermind (apparently I have brainwashed over a half dozen strong-willed people into thoughtless cronies, all with the sole mission to destroy Jerry) that he just finished a brand new rant about me on his website blog. If you want to read the writings of an insecure, juvenile, and possibly dangerous person, go visit his blog. To make matters worse he's a licensed psychologist and he actively threatens physical violence against those that disagree with him. Btw, I will happily offer up all emails that will show you who and what you're dealing with when you let Jerry into your life.

Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.
2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.
3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.
4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).
6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

Mitch
 
Old 02-28-2012, 07:39 AM   #34
Christina Vincent
Mitchell, Why give him 7 free snakes? And then 30 free? To sell in a deal? Or breed for you? Just because you guys WERE friends? I got a lil lost there sorry. Sounded just like he was a guy who begged for free snakes and you gave in so I was just curious

Stu, did you have the animal tested? While I do trust advice from the forums and they are a great way to gain knowledge and Info on just about anything if the right people are viewing but with something so possibly dangerous to a collection I would still get a Vet's diagnosis to put to bed the "it's just a humidity problem" claim. With these snakes the humidity can seriously effect shedding and it's the easiest claim a simple problem to add doubt. Hearing you have 40 years of keeping leads most of us I'm sure, to believe the issue is with the breeder NOT you, but confirmation of the disease would very well put an end to that. I hope this works out for you and I hope they don't have to be destroyed
 
Old 02-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #35
Lucille
For the benefit of the many readers of this thread who like myself are unfamiliar with zonata disease, would someone more familiar please map it out here?
And then tie the description in with the snakes the OP is describing which seems to be a shed problem.
If a breeder is selling an allegedly sick snake, it might be worthwhile to all subsequent readers if the symptoms were described in a little more detail.
Stu thank you for posting the emails.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 09:34 AM   #36
Bobby O
Thumbs down BUYER BEWARE

I THINK JERRY NOT COMING ON TO THIS SITE TO GIVE HIS VERSION OF THIS TRANSACTION SPEAKS VOLUMES! BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO VENTURE TO HIS PRIVATE SITE, THERE'S PLENTY HE HAS TO SAY THERE SINCE IT'S ALL HIS OPINIONS AND NO ONE CAN CHALLENGE HIM.

As for Lucille's question on zonata disease, there is not much information out there. When those two words come up, it puts shivers down a zonata keeper's spine as it has decimated countless zonata collections. There are no definitive causative factors that were ever identified/published BUT since it is contagious, it is thought of as infectious. Mitch Mulks who is obtaining his doctorate in zonatas is probably the best person to explain it. With that being said, Jerry has used zonata disease as a scare tactic when he was trying to get me to leave a deposit for his unhatched zonatas. Zonata disease or not, I think Stu (who no one can argue, is an accomplished colubrid breeder/keeper) had issues with these animals within two weeks and wanted to return them, but Jerry refused to take them back and instead wanted him to "work with them." Stu even told Jerry that if he didn't have the money, he can wait for the refund.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 10:33 AM   #37
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby O View Post
I THINK JERRY NOT COMING ON TO THIS SITE TO GIVE HIS VERSION OF THIS TRANSACTION SPEAKS VOLUMES! BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO VENTURE TO HIS PRIVATE SITE, THERE'S PLENTY HE HAS TO SAY THERE SINCE IT'S ALL HIS OPINIONS AND NO ONE CAN CHALLENGE HIM.
The BOI is where people come to check reputations, to see if there are positive or negative reports about those who they may be planning to do a transaction with.
It should not be necessary to travel to other venues to see evidence, especially as some places do not have the requirement that real names be used as this one does. And, as Bobby said above, some places do not allow any conflicting or additional comment.
Inexplicably Jerry sent the following pm to me (I am not a zonata person, I do not know why he chose me), I suppose to attempt to take the heat off requests that he respond to the allegations here. I would think a responsible breeder would want to address these kinds of allegations as soon as possible and offer his own perspective:


JerryKruse
Registered User



Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 6
Name : Jerry Kruse

Trader Rating: (0)
taking a moment
Hi Lucille,

please do not add any more pressure for me to reply just yet. I want to see exactly what Mr. Tennyson has to say before I blast him. I can assure you that you and many others are hearing a half-truth. I have also developed a negative following stemming from 2 years ago that does not make this any easier for me. That in and of itself is a long story that is stemmed in sheer stupidity and misunderstanding. Please give me time to reply -- I do have two young children to tend to and I may not even reply until tomorrow. Yes I have been "lurking" below -- wouldn't you be? My response will be written VERY carefully including a timeline of everything that transpired. Until then, please do unerstand and respect my silence...thank you much.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #38
Wilomn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
The BOI is where people come to check reputations, to see if there are positive or negative reports about those who they may be planning to do a transaction with.
It should not be necessary to travel to other venues to see evidence, especially as some places do not have the requirement that real names be used as this one does. And, as Bobby said above, some places do not allow any conflicting or additional comment.
Inexplicably Jerry sent the following pm to me (I am not a zonata person, I do not know why he chose me), I suppose to attempt to take the heat off requests that he respond to the allegations here. I would think a responsible breeder would want to address these kinds of allegations as soon as possible and offer his own perspective:


JerryKruse
Registered User



Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 6
Name : Jerry Kruse

Trader Rating: (0)
taking a moment
Hi Lucille,

please do not add any more pressure for me to reply just yet. I want to see exactly what Mr. Tennyson has to say before I blast him. I can assure you that you and many others are hearing a half-truth. I have also developed a negative following stemming from 2 years ago that does not make this any easier for me. That in and of itself is a long story that is stemmed in sheer stupidity and misunderstanding. Please give me time to reply -- I do have two young children to tend to and I may not even reply until tomorrow. Yes I have been "lurking" below -- wouldn't you be? My response will be written VERY carefully including a timeline of everything that transpired. Until then, please do unerstand and respect my silence...thank you much.
I suppose the next excuse will be his car breaking down, then the next one will be a family member being in the hospital and then, if I have it right, he'll lose his collection in a fire OR it will be stolen.

It must be taking him a lot of time to get through the scammers handbook.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #39
Desert Queen
Christina, Mitch did NOT give Jerry 30 free zonata. You didn't read it correctly.
 
Old 02-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #40
Christina Vincent
Ya caught that after sry, but why the 7? Seeing that 6 cost the OP $3100 it just didn't make sense to me. Guess its not the OP's comment so I should let it be. I just read that and was dumbfounded on it a minute lol.
 

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