Beware of Jerry Kruse

Originally Posted by Bobby O

I don't think ANYONE believes you would of paid Stu back if he didn't bring you onto the BOI. Even after he brought you onto the BOI I didn't think you had any intention of paying him back (hence the delay in response due to "personal issues") until you saw the response of the majority of people here who obviously thought you were in the wrong. And sadly enough, with your last personal e-mail to me, it's obvious you haven't learnt a thing or changed one bit from this BOI. Please stop shoveling your sh#t on us.

I, myself, believed he would have paid Stu back. Guess what? He did!

I also believed that many would keep this thread going on and on and on and on over any and every little thing Jerry would say. Guess what? Many have!!Nit picking and the constant urge many have to keep repeating the same old thing, over and over, shows that many here really do need to find something constructive to do.

I say all of this, and I do not even know Jerry.
I have met Stu in the nineties, when he was vending at a show, as we had a mutual friend. Nice guy.

The aspect of being mutual and neutral in the viewpoints over this whole scenario was not seen by many. Tony D's posts were spot on, as he was doing just that.

Ah well....humans are humans, and they will do what they do.

Originally Posted by JerryKruse

you all really have nothing better to do huh.

I'd like to address this comment simply because it is seen so often on the BOI, and usually spoken by a bad guy who got caught doing something he/she shouldn't have been doing.

I think it is an indirect slap at the BOI itself, because the forum was created not only for the parties involved but for the peers of the buyer and seller to weigh in on the actions and issues involved. To trivialize the time and thought that those who come to this forum put into their posts is simply disrespecting the reptile community.

This particular thread has had some very respected names in the zonata community offering their perspective and their time. Were this a court case and had they spoken as expert witnesses, they might have been paid. Here, they gifted their time, to Stu, and to the community.

In fact, many here do have other claims on their time, but the time spent here is a service to those who arrive here on the BOI, victimized, many times with issues, and often seeking insight, support, and help.

I think people who have taken their time to post are owed thanks, but in reference to the quote above, I can see how there may be those with questionable intentions who would rather that visitors find other ways to spend their time rather than gifting it to people who have come here for help.

[quote=DISCERN;1440491

I also believed that many would keep this thread going on and on and on and on over any and every little thing Jerry would say. Guess what? Many have!!Nit picking and the constant urge many have to keep repeating the same old thing, over and over, shows that many here really do need to find something constructive to do.
[/QUOTE]

LOL!!

Originally Posted by JerryKruse

Stu,

hope that first check has been deposited and thank you for accepting the one dated for 4/13. All will be fine in that arena.

As for others, well.....you all really have nothing better to do huh. Bottom line, if you have something to say I think it all the more meaningful to discuss it face to face. words on a screen mean little and I have found that given body language, tone of voice, and a more intimate personal exchange often leads to understanding, perhaps in one way or another. Yeah Bobbo, you are a big mouth....however that is certainly not construed as a threat. As for an annoyance, well, Bob and Mitch (as well as at least another have certainly proved to be just as annoying). So thanks for the typical passive-aggressive tendency Mitch, but at least I am trying to communicate here and not categorizing someone to be damned for eternity (sounds familiar I'm sure). So Bobbo, cup of coffee is on me should you be adventurous enough to bring that big mouth of yours and discuss your gripe. There are far too many olive branches awaiting and far too many unnecessary axes grinding all along. I'm at the half way mark, as I've always been. But remember -- sarcasm, condescendingness, and aggression beget the same.

I have not said a word for almost a week, and look at the twists and turns you all have created even after Stu is being refunded. That, too, speaks "volumes" as Tom likes to say. Yes, this all could have been avoided had I reacted immediately to Stu's demand for an immediate refund. I understand this! But I didn't, and I've already explained myself many, many times over already. This dead horse we've beaten has decayed already. Any zonata owner is now, I'm sure, looking at their charges in a very different light (myself included) even if their collection demonstrates no outward illness (myself included). Not an easy situation to be in especially when one has a passion for them. What more needs to be said? For those that are determined to think I would've screwed Stu over.....THAT IS YOUR PREROGATIVE and there's absolutely nothing I can do to change that. Had Stu afforded me the ability to try and balance my personal matters and the extremely concerning situation arising over the animals' condition after having received them, yes I would most definitely have taken the SAME ACTION I did here and provided that refund. No question about it. I would have needed some time in doing so, but the bottom line is that the refund would have made over some time. There is not one person who has contributed to this unnecessarily long thread that has not, in one point in their life, been able to meet every demand that life has at the very same time. Call it "the perfect storm" if you will, but sometimes we ALL experience so many things going on at once that we have to drop a ball or two to try and balance it all out. And that's what happened between Stu and I -- NOT me ditching him or avoiding him in the hopes he'd just go away. There was never any indication of this nor would there have been (BOI or not). Period.

Time to move forward.

really jerry??? below is the post where stu "asked" for a refund he even said he understood if you needed time! so why are you trying to lie or twist the truth??? i mean its ALL here in this thread! why do you feel the need to try to twist it in your favor? do you honestly feel this will help you in some way or that people are to dense to read and decide for themselves???
you should have simply stepped up from the begining and said ... ya'know what just send them back and i will refund you as soon as i can, but it may take a little while and i am sorry this happened... real simple.
because you know thats what you would have expected had you spent 3100.00 on snakes that looked like that within 2weeks. see it comes with selling or being a seller/dealer, the customer is always right. yes life is what happens when your busy making other plans... but integrity, concern, respect, honesty these are things that cannot be sidestepped. you need to own up to the fact that this unfortunate thread/situation is all YOUR doing not trying to garner sympathy for your actions for this to be able to "move foward"
see as can be seen below stu never said you were a "bad guy" it was YOU who threw that term out there after realizing all stu wanted was a refund. YOU reacted wrong. over and over and over and over again... and here we are.
have you EVER offered your customer who spent 3100.00 with you an apology for this entire fiasco?

Originally Posted by StuTennyson

This is a copy of text messeges once I finally got hold of him after several attempts to contact him.

JK: How many have this skin issue Stu?
Me: 2.2
JK: All four?!? At first it was just 2 of them.....!
Me: Yes. At first it was the male then on 26 jan I sent another text. I didn't get a responce from you.
JK: Oh shit, I'm sorry Stu. I never got that one. What the hell man, I'm just beside myself. This other fella in Maryland purchased almost 20 zonata from me and all is well. Every year, without fail, every sale is fine. I bust my butt to get snakes eating and never a problem, except 2 yrs ago when some guy cooled the snakes with fluctuating temps and the snake got respiratory issues and died.
Me: Well I tried to keep you informed but it was during the holidays and I found out afterward you were out of town. The first male developed but to a lesser degree and I spoke to you on he phone about it. He second male showed signs and worse and we exchanged a txt or two but the 2 females have it bad.
JK: Otherwise, every year is fine and never anything like this. Please, do ship them and I will work with them. If they turn out fine is due time, would you still want them?
Me: At this point I would be afraid to work with them and would rather just get a refund....if you don't mind.
JK: Please don't ship anything. I'm thinking this through really hard. This makes for a very tough position for me. Give me a day.
Me: I totally understand if you need some time to come up with the money. But I hope you understand I need to remove these snakes from my collection as soon as possible. I know you will do the right thing. Let me know. Thanks. Stu
JK: Stu, I'm on the fence right now. I sent you snakes that were in PERFECT condition and I'd worked with for quite a while to get going. If the environment was off perhaps something could have set off a skin problem. They continue to eat and thrive, but have a shedding issue. I need to think this through Stu. I'm upset too about the whole thing. I've sent zonata to John Lassiter and others who partake in the forums, and not once ever a problem. If you feel the need to blast me all over the place that I'm a jerk, then that's up to you. But I'm feeling kinda cornered at this point and I believe things like this work themselves out with time and patience. If they arrived like that, that's one thing. But something went wrong and it wasn't on my end. At the same time I feel awful as well.
Me: I have several hundred colubrids in my collection none of which have this problem. I haven't had them long enough to feel it is my responsibility. I notified you immediately once they started showing symptoms. I am basically a customer who is not satisfied with the product and want to know what you plan to do about it. I know if I sent someone snakes that wasn't happy I would take them back because I would want them to be happy and it's the right thing to do.
JK: I also have a customer whose specimens are in perfect condition as well as three remaining babies from the same clutch that are perfectly fine.
Me: I don't doubt what you are saying but it doesnt change the fact that i have snakes here that I haven't had long enough to feel responsible for. I need to know if you are going to refund my money or not so I know what to do next. If I do not hear from you in 24 hours I will assume you are not.
JK: Stu, why are you not willing to work with these snakes?!? They are dehydrated from what it sounds like, not zonata disease. You had them for two entire weeks and they were doing great. That's enough time for them to respond to perhaps a lack of something they required. Jesus, why are you strong-arming me? Most breeders offer a 48 hour guarantee only! I had them for MONTHS and they were finem , I sold their littermates to a fella in Maryland and they are fine. I have three leftovers from the same clutch and THEY are fine. Something goes awry on your end and I'm the bad guy now? Jesus! You may feel non-responsible after having them for 2 weeks + before something happenedn but I don't share your view on that Stu. If you want to send me them and I can get them back in order, that's fine. Even Rick Staub is telling you that keeping them with not enough humidity dries them out. But you want to blame me? I've sold zonata to Joecop and to John Lassiter and no problems. But you're making me out to be the bad guy in this! Send them to me and let me work with them, but I'm telling you this is NOT my fault Stu! I'd also offer some free snakes in the future, like Cosalas, to try to mend things a little but for crissakes I'm being blamed for something that did not happen in my care, and each and every snake in my collection (which is about 30) is absolutely pristine in condition. Humidity is always around 60% with moist hides as well, ambient temps never over room temperature and only, ONLY, adult females get some belly heat during ovulation and egg development. Maybe these hatchlings WERE too dry in your care.......is that impossible? Two weeks is long enough for ANYTHING to go wrong, but I have to eat it all after working with them for months and they being in perfect status in my care and upon arrival to you? Let's discuss this realistically before we get crazy. So please, send them to me to work with and let's see where this goes. I will give them the utmost care and attention (again) and keep you posted at every step as I did before I sent them to you. Okay?
Me: Yes I turn my phone off after 10 pm. I will call you at 5:30 your time. Ok Jerry, just tried to call but got your voice mail and it was full and wouldn't take any messages.
JK: I'm going to call ya in 'bout 30 minutesm just stuck in traffic and I don't have a hands-free device..... Not avoiding you, I'd never do that, Are they are on basic thawed unscented pinks?
Me: One eats f/t if you wiggle it with forceps and the other waffles between f/t and scented. Takes scented without hesitation. I will mark them accordingly.
JK: Whatever YOU are scenting with, send a piece along just in case. I want to be consistent.
Me: Ok
JK: Next 2 days in NYC high of 50F.
Me: That's good

Originally Posted by DISCERN

The aspect of being mutual and neutral in the viewpoints over this whole scenario was not seen by many.

i think the TRUTH was/is seen by anyone that can read.

I sold their littermates to a fella in Maryland and they are fine. I have three leftovers from the same clutch and THEY are fine

The above line is a quote from the texts between ol jer and Stu. It is from ol jer to Stu.

Tell me, jer, how many hatchlings were in this clutch. If Stu got 5 and you've still got 3 and you sold some to that guy who disappeared up in the NE, this must have been a record breaking clutch, size wise. Or did you not produce them yourself?

For those of you who are "neutral" and btw also think Jerry is their God, he has not paid Stu back yet. His check is dated 4/13. Unless you can time travel, it hasn't happened yet.... How long has it been now since the purchase? I don't even know. Its prolly being FIVE MONTHS NOW and Stu still hasn't received his full refund yet??? Yeah... I truly believe Stu would of been refunded if it weren't for the BOI. Pleeeeze....

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Really? You are still harping on that, despite (2) moderator interventions on the subject?.....despite (2) people receiving short term bans?
For clarification, that is not the point. That is a disruptive side topic. One of the (sometimes unfortunate) side effects of us not editing the content of people's posts is that they stay here for all to see. We just have to hope that participants know when to quit; and when they don't, we have to push the issue to convince them.
Wes' comment is not up for ongoing discussion. The only reason I haven't already submitted your ban to emphasize this point is you were directly responding to Dennis' post (which was made to address comments about an attack on Jerry's family)...of course, if his post was directed at you, it might still happen.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. It was so helpful.

Jerry you can say that (some) people have nothing better to do but cause issues here and make them linger on and on -- and you are right to a small degree.

However, there is nothing like the peer pressure from the BOI that Webslave wrote about to force a slimy-bully or fast-talking weasel to refund money where it is owed.

You NEVER would have refunded that money if not for this site.

I am glad you were dragged out of your hole and thrown into the open for everyone to see.

44,000 views and growing. You will never be very far from this thread in the snake community.

After reading this entire thread, I agree. Jerry would never have paid Stu, but he would likely have tried to negotiate some sort of replacement for the sick Zonatas. Problem is, Mr. Kruse's entire collection may be suspect now. He has paid a terrific price. Not referring to the $3,100. I am referring to the loss of future customers, whether he deserves it or not, his reputation is gone.