venomous dealers out of control

My god!! Fools like this are nothing but a bad media event waiting to happen.

I honestly can't think of not doing tons of research on any venomous snake I was even thinking about buying. This would include all the fact about the snake and its needs for its enviroment, its toxicity, bite protocols(just in case), and the location of the nearest source of anti venom and how much is stocked there and the expiration dates on it.

Fools like this have made news stories across the country and cause law makers to write and pass laws which limit what we can and can't keep. you know it is bad enough I live in a state wher a certain religious faction of baptists handle hots as a test of faith, and trust me when one of the members gets tagged by a copperhead it makes statewide news. But I also have to deal with complete morons who think getting a hot is the next step up from pit bull or cock fighting.

ERJ does not currently have Death Adders, but we did have them and do sell them when we have them. I could not care any less if someone wants to black list ERJ because we sell Death Adders (when we have them). I know several others that sell them. Should we all never buy from someone because they sell them (even though we don't know that that dealer is the one that was referred to in the origional post)??? I think that's silly.

When I was running ERJ, I did all that was in my power to make sure that I was selling to a responsible and legal person (or as Bud says, "legit person"). But as Tanith wrote, there is NO way to ever know 100% if the buyer is responsible or not. We can't fly out to each customer and watch them handle, quiz them, or whatever to make that decission. Neither can a gun salesman follow a potential customer around for weeks to make sure he is not some wacko. Gun stores have regulation they have to follow prior to a gun sale, and we have regulations we have to follow prior to selling someone a venomous snake. When the local idiot buys a gun and shoots himself in the foot, is that necessarily the seller's fault?

Not to pick on Bud (because I consider myself a friend of his), but there are many people I personally know that would tell me that Bud is NOT a good canadate for me to sell a venomous snake to for one reason or another. But he is licensed in the state of Florida, he appears to be reaponsible, and I would classify him as a "LEGIT" customer, regardless of what others may think of him.

Obviously I would never sell a venomous snake to someone that was obviously inexperienced, and Scott (and several others) can verify that I have turned down MANY sales because of that. I think that if I do my best to use good judgement, and I am within the legal guidlines, that is the best I can do. I am gratefull that there was not some self made god judging me many years ago when I bought my first venomous snake (and I am not directing that at any specific person). I have found that in Florida, when SOME people get their venomous permit, they tend to think that now that they got their permit, nobody else should get one. Nobody else could possibly be as qualified as them to have venomous snakes.

Just my two cents, feel free to bash me because I don't think like you do (again, not directed at anyone specificlly).

Put a little god bless there or what ever and its all cool.

IF (and i mean IF) that remark was directed at me, I sign EVERYTHING that way, and end ALL phone calls in the same mannor, and more over I mean it. I don't care what anyone else's religios beliefs are, but I believe in God, and wish him to bless EVERYONE. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If you are a satanist, or simply just don't believe in any God, that's fine, just ignore me when I say that to you. But I certainly do not use the phrase to sell animals, of to rationalize anything I do. That's really grabbing at straws to even suggest something that silly.
If I am just immagining that that silliness was directed at me, than forgive me, and lets move on.

Every time sombody wants to buy a snake he or she must file for a buyers permit ! ... This will state they are LEGIT 100%.

There are inherent problems with that idea..... I happen to know that you own or have owned quite a few hots; well what if the next time you wish to buy another venomous snake, they have a new inspector there that just does not feel you are a good canadate for venomous snakes, and declines your request to buy one? How would you handle that? We are bact to allowing someone to play god with your right to buy another hot snake (a right that you have excercised many times in the past, but now can no longer do so because one person decided that you can't for some reason or another).

(Bud, I tried to call you prior to posting this reply, but got no answer. I will try again, as I am interested to hear your views.)

I am asking you all for ideas to tie up the loop holes.
I know dealers don't like to be in news after a sale its bad for everyone.
If we cannot police ourselves we will be policed.

Also ray I havent been near any snake dealers for about
a year.
The shocking realities of the reptile trade has soured my
love of the hobby.
Everyone out to scam everyone makes me sick.
Then you have the voiders and all the crimminals.
The liars!
The virus peddlers.
It goes on and on.
Then the remaining good guys suffer.
It was easy to make the decision to quit hots this year.
So for some one to tell you not to sell to me is a bit funny.
ha ha.
Its been fun for the most part

I think alot have missed the point.
Whether or not it was apparent in my short initial post, I was trying to keep it simple.
The point and fact is this...
Whoever the dealer was, he/she made no effort to discourage the purchase of these snakes. It was far more than absolutely rediculously apparent that this particular gentlemen, knew nothing about them. He said absolutely nothing in a 5 minute conversation that even remotely in the farthest reaches of the imagination that could have been construed as knowledgeable to own a venomous snake!
The death adder deal, they would need to be selling all three, not just the D.A. There is nothing wrong with selling a Death Adder to someone that is qualified. was only because I would like to know personally who the dealer was, because I would like to not ever associate myself to people/companies that have no regard for other peoples safety. Even if it is protecting someone from themself. Thats my own choice.
Whoever, sold this person the snakes, had absolutely no common sense whatsoever and should be ashamed of themselves.
Re: Consumer responsibility, A car dealer would not sell a vehicle to someone who never drove a car before in there life....
A fighter pilot would not let someone over the phone or internet come fly there jet?
So why would a dealer sell a mamba to someone that didn't even know what color they were except it was in it's name.
The consumer needed to be responsible. The dealer needed to be responsible. Neither of which were. This makes for a bad situation.
Maybe the dealers should ask themselves this question when selling a venomous snake to someone they know nothing about.
" From this conversation on the computer/phone, would I be comfortable letting this person handle a Cobra, E.A. Green Mamba, or Death adder in MY buisness under MY workmans comp?
I guarantee there would be alot fewer venomous sales!
So being that a dealer is reading this. Just out of curiosity, what do you do to verify that someone is responsible enough to own say a mamba or taipan?
Just because someone has a venomous permit in Florida, does that mean they are ready for such a snake? Does 1000 hours of keeping a local pigmy rattlesnake, qualify someone to own a taipan? No!
There is no perfect system here.....or anywhere. However, there is no way that this guy could talk a good talk and convince anyone that he knew what he was doing or getting into!
This is where the dealer says " ya know, maybe you should do a little reading and work your way up to those snakes!" Maybe a corn snake would better suit you. Or if you want to get crazy, maybe a Mangrove Snake!"
This did not happen, so who is more in the wrong? Both!
Best Regards to all.
T-

taphillip, I could not agree with you more. Perhaps I misunderstood the initial post. Sorry.

Bud, sorry to hear that your liking for the hobby has been ruined. I understand how that can happen. That is one of the reasons i keep my private collection completely private.

take care.
Ray

Put a little god bless there or what ever and its all cool.

Bud,
why don't you get off your high horse!!!!

God doesn't have any thing to do with the topic at hand.
Don't play games and act like your not trying to call anybody out.
I'm not stupid,I know the person your talking about.

I do think the dollor mite make people make the wrong choice sometimes,but don't think I would take your side on anything you say !!!

I KNOW YOUR NOT STUPID ,WELL MAYBE YOUR ARE WITH THE REMARKS YOU MAKE.

WE ARE NOT MIND READERS YOU CAN ONLY USE YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT WHEN IT COMES TO SELLING VENOMOUS SNAKE!!!

I HOPE YOU WILL TAKE IN WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU,AND RECONSIDERER THE STATMENT YOU MAKE!!

BE BLESSED
IF YOU WANT TO CALL ME AND TALK ABOUT THIS MORE FEEL FREE TO CALL ME ANYTIME

THANKS,
DANNY

oh dan,
I realy don't get what your problem is?
you are a new guy so we will watch you posts to see if your legit or just a ghost come to attack me for personal reasons.
since you came here to start your first post.
A great start ha ha ha ha

you wrote-
"Don't play games and act like your not trying to call anybody out.
I'm not stupid,I know the person your talking about."

you think I directed this at a single person?
who?

well answer if you can but I will understand if your scared to name this person.

The dealers are too loosely controled anyone can sling snakes.
a good example was the guy that worked for a local importer.
he sold dying virus infected snakes to all his (friends) and
killed off over 40 snakes now.
He knew they were sick sold them any way with out any permits licenses so he has now fled the state to carolina!
To evade justice. he says he will pay the people back but we know the reality they have been scammed!
you know him do you think he was a good dealer?
if you do you are as bad.

Dont' say god bless if its being used to cover up your sins.
or in anger,or if its used to cover up shady deals.
havent you heard about wolfs in sheeps clothing.


good day

you think I directed this at a single person? well answer if you can but I will understand if your scared to name this person.

I already addressed this issue, but you never addressed it in your reply. I felt that you were making reference to me, not only with the "God Bless" thing, but also with the remarks about a buyer being "legit". I would like to hope that I am wrong, but I can't tell from your reply. You and I have civil phone conversations, and you were nice to meet at the Daytona show, so I don't know why you would start making these remarks out of the blue.

Also, I,ve tried for several days to call you but no answer.

Ray Hunter

well answer if you can but I will understand if your scared to name this person.

Bud,
my name and # is on this forum.Like I said before if you want to call me than go ahead.

I know your talking about Ray Hunter!!!!!

Dont' say god bless if its being used to cover up your sins.

First of all I didn't say God bless out of anger,And just to let you know the g in God is to be capitalized,but let me guess you knew that.