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Old 10-23-2014, 09:16 PM   #21
bmwdirtracer
I want to apologize to the Moderator, for venting my frustrations, above. I was absolutely out of line, doing that, and was therefore disrespectful to the good people who maintain and visit these forums.

My sincere apologies to everyone for my childishness.
 
Old 11-07-2014, 07:46 AM   #22
tim brophy
No apologies needed at all. Thanks for trying to give life to this forum. How is your crew of indigos doing? My big male has totally shut down for the winter. Happens every year. Take care.
 
Old 11-07-2014, 11:44 AM   #23
lovin2act
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim brophy View Post
No apologies needed at all. Thanks for trying to give life to this forum. How is your crew of indigos doing? My big male has totally shut down for the winter. Happens every year. Take care.
Glad its not just my guy alone then!! My boy is doing pretty much the same and skipped his last meal choosing instead to go re-bury him self back under the newspaper from where I pulled him out for food time. My younger 2 year old is still hammering away though.
 
Old 11-07-2014, 12:36 PM   #24
tim brophy
My females keep on feeding with maybe a slight reduction, as do my 2013 males. But the 2011 7 foot+ male has not eaten in about three weeks. I keep trying every few days, but his interest is not in food. Got his temp down into mid 70's. If I had a female older than 2 years, I would put him with her. But my females are all 2012's, even though the biggest is 2500 grams and 6'! The 2013 boys are still nailing food. One nailed 8 rat pups over 6 days; the other 2013 boy ate 1 cornsnake, 3 chicks and two quail over the same 6 days. One of the 2013 males is producing sperm plugs. I wonder how young indigos reproduce in the wild? I believe it is younger than we think.
 
Old 11-07-2014, 07:37 PM   #25
bmwdirtracer
All my boys and girls went on a diet for about a month, and were eating, but very sparingly. I wasted so many thawed mice and chicks, it was driving me nuts. They all even shed during that period, but still only took one animal after the shed!

Finally, four days ago, they were all refusing their regular foods again......until I cut the legs off of two chicks, and offered one to each snake. That did it! They grabbed the legs like they were starving, and then proceeded to eat a couple of animals each. I'll be feeding them all again tomorrow, starting with chick legs. (Yes, the bigger snakes can nearly inhale the legs, but it gets them started; that's what matters.)

I'm excited; have another permit application submitted for adding a four-year old girl to my family....
 
Old 11-08-2014, 10:09 AM   #26
tim brophy
Good that you are getting a mature female. They are tough to find. Hope you can breed her in a couple years.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 09:52 PM   #27
bmwdirtracer
Very much on the subject, but a question I haven't seen asked:

My new girl, arriving in 2 weeks, is pure black. She's 4 years old. My .12 pair has a male that's near her size....but of course, he's still growing fast.

I figure on them mating, in a year; because his unrelated '12 mate won't be ready yet.

BUT HE IS STRONGLY REDTHROAT.

Am I bastardizing the breed, or improving the species, by combining the 2?

Personally, I lean towards the latter, because we have an inbreeding issue with couperi.

But I'd like to hear arguments, if anyone believes them.....
 
Old 11-25-2014, 12:44 PM   #28
tim brophy
I have asked this question of maybe three indigo breeders, and the concensus from this small group is that the color phases are random. There are no recognized subspecies within eastern indigos, so I do not see how you would be bastardizing the species. My largest male is a red throat and his parents were both black throats!
I have really come to favor the black throats, but when I first got involved with this species I wanted the more colorful red-throats. But in my very small sample size, I have only two black throats. They are both really great snakes, and are the fastest growers I have.
 
Old 11-25-2014, 07:56 PM   #29
bmwdirtracer
Thanks, Tim! I believe that black phase vs. red throat -- and the color of red -- are, in the wild, somewhat determined by locale. I know that in the Orlando area, several decades ago, every indigo I saw had a DEEP ruby red throat and chin. A friend from coastal Tampa area found very orange-chinned snakes.

Nonetheless, I've read John Michels' (Black Pearl) account of breeding a black to a red-throat, and getting both phases, for his first brood. And I personally like the idea of diversifying the gene pool as much as possible. I have the genetic history of all my present 4; they are all unrelated, and the new girl has no relatives from any of the breeders in any of my genetic trees.

(Just for science's sake, it's worth noting that there are no subspecies of Homo sapiens, either..... And a Chihuahua and Great Dane are the same species, too.)
 
Old 11-25-2014, 08:24 PM   #30
snowgyre
(Actually, there were two subspecies of Homo sapiens, H. s. idaltu which is now extinct, and the currently extant H. s. sapiens. :-)
 

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