Smoothies

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

I have absolutely no knowledge of BD genetics, but I'd like to know if this statement is true. Can anyone confirm or refute this statement?

I would like to know myself actually.

DUH! Where do you think the bright red dragons and the lucy's and all the other morphs came from? Don't you realize that changing the color of the dragon still concentrates the gene pool (inbreeding) and makes for more genetic problems down the road? Are you so naive that you did not realize that?

The red ones come from dragons that originate from the Eyre Peninsula area of Australia, they occur naturally in abundance ( don't believe all thy hype you read about someone "creating something", our friends in Australia get a big kick out of how gullible and dumb some Americans and so called "breeders" are) NOTE: no one is changing the color in them, it is already their, so no need to inbreed to get it either ( but feel free to i if you feel you must)........... are you so naive that you did not realize that?

A few comments:

Pity these animals, for that is what they need, maybe these people are also the ones that would get a kick out of making human children suffer too?

They are not big breeders, they are mass and mill breeders and do not give a care about the animals or the owners that will raise them. I think a nice summary is the breeders that "trash for cash".

I am one that got disgusted with this industry after seeing the level that someone was stooping to in try to manipulate people, comments by others and also the the stalking they were doing to others. It is a sick, sick mind that is so obsessed with the dollars, they have to stoop to the level of a primal scum pool

Big healthy? yes, some produce big, healthy ones... yet we also know for a fact they produce whole clutches that had to be put down, died, are weak and do not make it to being adults, crooked backs, tails and other deformities that they have to be put down out of the egg..... Or pawned off to pet stores. Oh goodness, we are so advanced and proud now that we can take the very things that protected them to thrive and strip them away... yes, wonderful people and such a contribution to world they make!

Isn't it interesting that some are whitewashing the issues in the bearded dragon field to justify their actions, yet the people in the snakes industry have enough sense to know better? Tells you something about the mentality I think...... and BTW, NO experts or researchers have condoned the selling and spreading of adenovirus at all... read carefully and you all have fun trashing some more, I just thought I would pop in and see if some noses were still just up some butts so far they could still breathe and dancing on the strings

Originally Posted by CheriS

The red ones come from dragons that originate from the Eyre Peninsula area of Australia, they occur naturally in abundance ( don't believe all thy hype you read about someone "creating something", our friends in Australia get a big kick out of how gullible and dumb some Americans and so called "breeders" are) NOTE: no one is changing the color in them, it is already their, so no need to inbreed to get it either ( but feel free to i if you feel you must)........... are you so naive that you did not realize that?

A few comments:

Pity these animals, for that is what they need, maybe these people are also the ones that would get a kick out of making human children suffer too?

They are not big breeders, they are mass and mill breeders and do not give a care about the animals or the owners that will raise them. I think a nice summary is the breeders that "trash for cash".

I am one that got disgusted with this industry after seeing the level that someone was stooping to in try to manipulate people, comments by others and also the the stalking they were doing to others. It is a sick, sick mind that is so obsessed with the dollars, they have to stoop to the level of a primal scum pool

Big healthy? yes, some produce big, healthy ones... yet we also know for a fact they produce whole clutches that had to be put down, died, are weak and do not make it to being adults, crooked backs, tails and other deformities that they have to be put down out of the egg..... Or pawned off to pet stores. Oh goodness, we are so advanced and proud now that we can take the very things that protected them to thrive and strip them away... yes, wonderful people and such a contribution to world they make!

Isn't it interesting that some are whitewashing the issues in the bearded dragon field to justify their actions, yet the people in the snakes industry have enough sense to know better? Tells you something about the mentality I think...... and BTW, NO experts or researchers have condoned the selling and spreading of adenovirus at all... read carefully and you all have fun trashing some more, I just thought I would pop in and see if some noses were still just up some butts so far they could still breathe and dancing on the strings

I think those that are "whitewashing" these issues are going to be shot down off of their high horses pretty soon. All it takes is a few people to stand up for what is right. Now is that time folks. Its time for ALL of you who love and care for these animals, to do whats right.

Viva la revolution!!! ^_^ hehe

Originally Posted by CheriS

The red ones come from dragons that originate from the Eyre Peninsula area of Australia, they occur naturally in abundance ( don't believe all thy hype you read about someone "creating something", our friends in Australia get a big kick out of how gullible and dumb some Americans and so called "breeders" are) NOTE: no one is changing the color in them, it is already their, so no need to inbreed to get it either ( but feel free to i if you feel you must)........... are you so naive that you did not realize that?

A few comments:

Pity these animals, for that is what they need, maybe these people are also the ones that would get a kick out of making human children suffer too?

They are not big breeders, they are mass and mill breeders and do not give a care about the animals or the owners that will raise them. I think a nice summary is the breeders that "trash for cash".

I am one that got disgusted with this industry after seeing the level that someone was stooping to in try to manipulate people, comments by others and also the the stalking they were doing to others. It is a sick, sick mind that is so obsessed with the dollars, they have to stoop to the level of a primal scum pool

Big healthy? yes, some produce big, healthy ones... yet we also know for a fact they produce whole clutches that had to be put down, died, are weak and do not make it to being adults, crooked backs, tails and other deformities that they have to be put down out of the egg..... Or pawned off to pet stores. Oh goodness, we are so advanced and proud now that we can take the very things that protected them to thrive and strip them away... yes, wonderful people and such a contribution to world they make!

Isn't it interesting that some are whitewashing the issues in the bearded dragon field to justify their actions, yet the people in the snakes industry have enough sense to know better? Tells you something about the mentality I think...... and BTW, NO experts or researchers have condoned the selling and spreading of adenovirus at all... read carefully and you all have fun trashing some more, I just thought I would pop in and see if some noses were still just up some butts so far they could still breathe and dancing on the strings

Cheri! I'm so glad to see you enter into this argument! I was starting to miss all your snippy little comments. I admit - I was wrong to think that silkbacks were produced by inbreeding. I did a little more research and found out that they are produced in a similar way to superpastel ball pythons. I appologize for my hasty assumptions.

As far as your comments about color lines...yes , dragons have differing colors depending on where they live. But...how many leucistics, and glowing orange, and retina-searing reds do your really think are currently roaming the outback?

Jamie

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

I would like to know myself actually.

Straight from the Italian horse's mouth...

http://www.pogonavitticeps.it/intr_file/page0004.htm

These are the people that produced these animals. It explains the genetics.

Jamie

Originally Posted by walker75

Jamie a question and just a question

Do you know and are you friends with Vicki Dachiu ?

Seems like another spokesperson has stepped up JMO

What does Vicky Dachiu have to do with this? Me - a spokesperson - LOL! I speak only for myself, Walker75. Are you a spokesperson? Or just someone who likes to speak up now and then when they feel like the majority will back them?

Jamie

The dragons being a co-dom it would be similar to that of pastels. or the supers that is.. But in the future plans to cross with a trans. Your going to take something that possibly dont have inbreeding. and cross with a major inbred animal.. The silkbacks dont have enough change in care of them. Then add the trans on top of it.. It makes perfect sence huh..
Leatherbacks arent produced that often. so to have many unrelated doesnt seem totally possible.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Straight from the Italian horse's mouth...

http://www.pogonavitticeps.it/intr_file/page0004.htm

These are the people that produced these animals. It explains the genetics.

Jamie

Interesting, but still, what is the purpose of an animal without scales? Same goes for the Scaleless ball python(s) that some have hatched. Why would people continue breeding these animals? and then making them OPEN to the public for resale if they dont even know if this trait is good or bad for these animals in the long run.

I should then ask. DO they know if this trait Affects them Adversely? What are the details?

How do they shed? Do they get skin infections easier? Wouldnt people research these sorts of things first, before making them available? or allowing others to create these themselves? I just feel that they should not be widely available until all of this information is known and proper care can be given.

Im all for a new and interesting animal, but i care more about their overall health than making money, or seeing others make money off of these animals without knowing the entire story on them.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

What does Vicky Dachiu have to do with this? Me - a spokesperson - LOL! I speak only for myself, Walker75. Are you a spokesperson? Or just someone who likes to speak up now and then when they feel like the majority will back them?

Jamie

Well, Vickie Dachiu obviously has to do with this, since her name is on the Italian breeder's Available page, and Vickie Dachiu says on her website that she got her dragons from Alessandro in Italy. If you look at the contact page on the Italian breeder's website, his name is Alessandro. Connect the dots yet?

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Interesting, but still, what is the purpose of an animal without scales? Same goes for the Scaleless ball python(s) that some have hatched. Why would people continue breeding these animals? and then making them OPEN to the public for resale if they dont even know if this trait is good or bad for these animals in the long run.

I should then ask. DO they know if this trait Affects them Adversely? What are the details?

How do they shed? Do they get skin infections easier? Wouldnt people research these sorts of things first, before making them available? or allowing others to create these themselves? I just feel that they should not be widely available until all of this information is known and proper care can be given.

Im all for a new and interesting animal, but i care more about their overall health than making money, or seeing others make money off of these animals without knowing the entire story on them.

Agreed. I have the highest hopes that the people involved in this project will not make silkbacks available to the general public if the animals are sickly or overly difficult to care for. And besides - if they DID sell an animal that proved to be sickly and difficult to care for - it would not take long for sales to stop and the breeding project would more than likely end. I really don't see the general public buying these animals in mass anyway. Think about how much some of the ball python morphs go for. Now imagine what a scale-less lizard would go for. I am guessing that if you can actually AFFORD to plunk down that kind of cash, then you would more than likely be willing to care for this animal's special needs. I just don't see a bunch of stupid kids running around with silkbacks in their pockets.

Jamie