Steve Lieber/Vigo theveiledchameleon.com

Originally Posted by kluas88

which will make it much harder to scam people.

...Or easier depending of which end of the rope the scammer is...We have only used PayPal for down payments; you use the benefits of speed risking only a fraction of the total amount.

Best

I would never send a check or money order to buy something online. It doesnt make any sense, paypal is good for not only speed buy the have buyer protection that will get your money back if you have been scammed. Even if the seller sends you an animal that is sick or deformed in some way paypal will refund the full amount you paid including shipping. The easiest way to get scammed is by sending a check or money order.

Originally Posted by kluas88

I would never send a check or money order to buy something online. It doesnt make any sense, paypal is good for not only speed buy the have buyer protection that will get your money back if you have been scammed. Even if the seller sends you an animal that is sick or deformed in some way paypal will refund the full amount you paid including shipping. The easiest way to get scammed is by sending a check or money order.

You haven't read enough threads on here with tons of stories about people being sent sick animals...dead animals...and even empty boxes with random crap that had no animals. And Paypal didn't do squat for them because a tracking number had been given, proving shipment was sent and received. They may be a little better with their eBay customers...but the rest of us out here in the real world rarely get the benefits of any of Paypal's "protections."

Your best bet is to back your paypal account with a really good credit card. A good CC company takes fraud a lot more seriously and will be far more ready to do a charge back than Paypal ever will.

I am just speaking from my own experience. When I bought some live coral from a guy on another site and it arrived dead. I contacted the seller for over a week with no response. Then I called paypal and by the end of the week I recieved a full refund. With paypal you wil get your money back you just have to be firm with them on the phone that the seller scammed you and the product was dead on arrival. Paypal does an investigation into the sellers live arrival guarantee and then refunds your money.

^ I would have to say that is an exception to their policy. Paypal has traditionally not gotten involved with any issues involving a live animal. Paypal's Buyer Protection really only extends to items purchaded through ebay sites. As long as their is evidence a seller sent you ANYTHING, they consider you rec'd your product.
Most people find this out and muct go thru their CC to recover the money.

Curious if you were aware of their reputation on here kluas, and went ahead and ordered anyway? Hope you recv your pacman and it does well forya!

Actually only after emailing them yesterday and today and not recieving a response did I start to look at the site reviews and found this board of inquiry. Steve said that he would ship my frog to me yesterday and I havent recieved tracking info yet. If I cant get a response by 1pm I am going to file a claim with paypal and tell them about how this site has been scamming people. Hopefully they will place holds on there acount and refund my money. I wish I would have seen this thread before I bought. All I wanted was a healthy pacman for a low price. $35 shipped is to good to be true

Just wanted to say that it turns out he did ship yesterday. I just recieved my ornate pacman and it is in fantastic condition! Much healthier than any pacman from a pet store. For only $35 shipped this was a steal! Pacmans in my area cost at least that much in the pet store. I think they have turned it around.

Most scammers going through paypal take the money out as soon as it hits their bank and then you have no recourse for recovery if there is no money in the account. Speaking from previously being scammed. CC with guarantee is bout the only recovery/

Glad you got the frog. At least one guy got what he ordered.

Originally Posted by kluas88

I am just speaking from my own experience. When I bought some live coral from a guy on another site and it arrived dead. I contacted the seller for over a week with no response. Then I called paypal and by the end of the week I recieved a full refund. With paypal you wil get your money back you just have to be firm with them on the phone that the seller scammed you and the product was dead on arrival. Paypal does an investigation into the sellers live arrival guarantee and then refunds your money.

Originally Posted by kluas88

Just wanted to say that it turns out he did ship yesterday. I just recieved my ornate pacman and it is in fantastic condition! Much healthier than any pacman from a pet store. For only $35 shipped this was a steal! Pacmans in my area cost at least that much in the pet store. I think they have turned it around.

This looks to me like a classic case of those magical blinders that convince someone whatever they experience in life automatically guarantees the same experiences for everyone else.

I'm glad you had a situation resolved with paypal. I know they certainly DO resolve some situations satisfactorily, but the fact is, they are extremely inconsistent with their "protection" and I've seen way too many people on both the buyer's side and the seller's side SCAMMED out of their money not just by the bad guy, but also by paypal who would not live up to their vaunted "protections."

It's fine to say, "I had a good experience, so maybe you will to." But to say, "I had a good experience, so they WILL fix things for you too" is just wrong.

Same with the frog. I'm REALLY glad you got what you wanted and you're really happy with it. But dealing with a "business" like this is a crap-shoot. You MIGHT get what you expected and wanted....but you very well might not. And just because you got yours is not evidence that they've turned some corner and suddenly become good guys.

Sorry...I don't mean to be harsh if that's how it sounds. I just get very weary of those magical blinders.