SULCATA TORTOISE

I have long been fascinated with these creatures, and I'm considering getting a small one. I'm doing my research to make sure it is actually going to be a good match for me.
My question is if anyone has experience with having a sulcata in Florida and kept it outside year-round. If so, how do they handle our 'winter' and how do they deal with the rainy season?
I'm still researching the size of the area I'm going to need and how to set up a 'house,' so any insight on that would be great as well!

Wow...no one in Florida, huh? Guess I'll be a pioneer!
And maybe around this time next year I'll be able to post my experience in case someone else in Florida wants to keep a sulcata outside all year!

I haven't lived in florida... so certainly haven't kept them there. Or really kept them personally at all; I have never wanted to devote the space to one.

I know a fair amount about them anyway... fair. Not exhaustive and complete.

I'd actually worry a bit about them being too wet outdoors in Florida, not something insurmountable but I'd definitely pay more attention and be overly cautious about the animal's skin health and respiration, to make sure there wasn't anything growing where it shouldn't be.

Predators are a concern when keeping them outdoors, don't do it before the tortoise is fair sized.

And... outdoor sulcatta enclosures are expensive. They grow pretty quick and need a lot of room and they dig... and dig... and dig. Your best bet is to bury a cinderblock wall about five-six feet deep around the entire area you're going to have closed off for them. They can (and sometimes will) dig down four-six feet and then eight-twelve feet from the front of the hole to the back. If you've ever watched a nature documentary about Africa and seen a half dozen warthogs come piling out of a hole- they didn't dig it themselves, they stole it from a sulcatta.

Other than the fact that the males are slow but persistent sex fiends for a couple months a year, they're pretty cool animals. Tortoises are substantially smarter than most other reptiles and there are behaviors that can be used to distinguish between individuals... they can learn and recognize patterns that are beyond the potential of any snake and most lizards and while caring for them can be pricey, it's not exactly difficult or strenuous from a day to day workload kind of perspective... they're good pets if you've got the space and are willing to devote it to them.

Thanks Seamus, for at least giving me different info than I've been able to find. I knew they were diggers, but I had no idea it was to that extent. What about when I prep the area, if I put down some type of fencing (hog wire, etc) on the bottom & sides of a dug out area? Do you think that would be a good or bad idea?
As far as space, I'm on almost 2 acres, so that isn't a problem...nor, I don't think, would the rain as long as it has someplace covered & dry, right? The area I'm thinking of putting it in is well-drained and slopes a little. I was thinking of using a large igloo dog house, but am still researching the housing options.
As for males being sex fiends...does that mean that I have to worry about having one hump my leg while I'm in the enclosure or just that if I have females that it will stress them out?! I'm not wanting to breed (having enough stress of my own with my balls), so I was actually thinking about getting a small female. Are there any particular reasons one sex is more easily kept than the other?
What types of predators would I have to worry about? I have dogs, but they won't be an issue due to the fact that I'm looking at using a dog kennel-type enclosure that will be covered totally with the hog wire to keep anything bigger than 2" x 4" from coming through (along with a covered, shaded area on top of that.
As for "caring for them can be pricey," what exactly is pricey about them? Are we talking vet bills if they get sick? I have a savings account set up just for my animals...if you're talking other than average vet-bill care, please elaborate.
Did I miss anything? I'm always thinking, but I'm also open to assistance & constructive criticism--so just let me know if I'm on the right track!
Thanks again!

Originally Posted by Tiger Lilly

Thanks Seamus, for at least giving me different info than I've been able to find. I knew they were diggers, but I had no idea it was to that extent.

That is big adults but... they get there eventually.

What about when I prep the area, if I put down some type of fencing (hog wire, etc) on the bottom & sides of a dug out area? Do you think that would be a good or bad idea?

I'm not entirely comfortable answering that. The one enclosure I helped build for adults, we went with the cinderblocks. It was fairly labor intensive to sink a wall down five feet (and then build it up by three, for an eight foot wall total) but it provided a solid rock-like barrier. I'm honestly not sure how they would react to buried wire; they might regard it as a barrier, they might dig at it until it breaks, they might dig at it until they manage to hook something on it and injure themselves. Someone who had tried that method would be much better suited to answer it.

I would say that it is important to give them someplace to dig. That behavior is instinctive and tied in with most everything else they do at that size. The plural of anecdote isn't data... but I am aware of a couple independent examples which were kept on concrete (where they could not dig) and it had some negative impacts on the behavior. And their toenails.

As far as space, I'm on almost 2 acres, so that isn't a problem...nor, I don't think, would the rain as long as it has someplace covered & dry, right? The area I'm thinking of putting it in is well-drained and slopes a little. I was thinking of using a large igloo dog house, but am still researching the housing options.

If it's well drained, you're probably right. They aren't exactly desert dwellers and they do spend some time underground where the available moisture is- but they aren't regularly wet, which I'm given to understand some parts of Florida might be. An area capable of draining or at least with dry portions in it- coupled with keeping a slightly closer eye on their respiration and skin would probably do it. Just keep a regular eye on the folds of skin, especially around the legs and neck where it's thinner and prone to fold, to make sure no infections settle in.

There are some theories... you may run into them, although they have been largely discredited as nonsense, so I mention them only because they did make their way into some older books and probably a few websites... that a humidity and moisture intake beyond the amounts they encounter in the wild are causes of pyramiding. It's pretty well a load of crap, although diet certainly plays a strong role in shell formation issues.

As for males being sex fiends...does that mean that I have to worry about having one hump my leg while I'm in the enclosure or just that if I have females that it will stress them out?! I'm not wanting to breed (having enough stress of my own with my balls), so I was actually thinking about getting a small female. Are there any particular reasons one sex is more easily kept than the other?

They might try... really, anything too slow to get away that provides a good angle at the right time of year risks a thin, slick coating of tortoise love. Other tortoises obviously... of either gender and not always aimed in a proper fashion... rocks, piles of driftwood... I've personally witnessed one who was in a pet shop go after the bottom row of shelves, rubbermaid tubs from a rat rack that were drying upsidedown and forty pound bags of dog food.

It can definitely be a stress on females in a mixed group. A necessary one if one wanted baby tortoises, but in the wild they can wander away between rounds and in captivity they're usually introduced in controlled measured bursts.

Gender differences... males can get bigger and will- although that's not so easily seen in the first decade or so when the growth rates are pretty similar. The males have the breeding season behavior which can be... well, it's interesting. Females there's the same sorts of egg binding risks and dietary concerns that are present with most female reptiles, bred or not.

They're extremely difficult to sex until they're a few years old though, the external characteristics aren't readily apparent until they get some size to them. If you're starting with a little one on a tortoise table, it's a bit of a craps shoot.

What types of predators would I have to worry about?

That'd depend on how big they were when you wanted to put them outside. Pretty much none past twenty-thirty pounds or so but prior to that they can be snagged by a few predatory birds (including some that aren't raptors), dogs, cats when they're very small, fox, skunk, possum... I have no idea if you have any coyotes down there (but they're not exactly restricted to the deserts of the southwest)... In theory a good sized gator could certainly crack one open, although that seems like a fairly remote possibility for contact.

The potential predators become scarcer and scarcer as they get bigger of course. At thirty pounds, sulcattas are built to be kicked by rhinos, there's not much that'll mess with them- although I'd still be a little wary of dogs, which might (given time and a real need for food) take a leg off.

As for "caring for them can be pricey," what exactly is pricey about them? Are we talking vet bills if they get sick? I have a savings account set up just for my animals...if you're talking other than average vet-bill care, please elaborate.

Enclosure costs just because of the size of the things needed to house them adequately.

Food can potentially add up depending on the local availability of dried grasses/hays and fresher greens. I certainly wouldn't want to feed one by buying hays from a Petsmart and greens from the produce section of a supermarket if I could avoid it... feed and grain stores can definitely mitigate the cost of the grasses portion of the diet and getting in good with the local produce managers for anything that's just a little wilted around the edges (not rotten, but not quite the bright crispness they might want on display) at a big discount can help with the leafy stuff.

Vet care is just a question of finding someone who knows reptiles... and then because of the larger than average mass, if you ever need to medicate, expect to have a higher cost there, since they'd be using more of it- but that's more an emergency cost than a maintenance cost.

As to the "anything else" stuff... um... Know what a pig blanket is? And... how much can you- and those living with you- lift if it becomes necessary?

Just a quick addition- there are some other gender related behavioral differences that may crop up.

Some males seem to use slightly different and more aggressive breeding strategies and, when it's the right time of year, can be serious behavioral problems if they're being kept communally. They'll sometimes beat up on other males and beat up on any nearby females as a sort of slow motion dominant behavior directly related to their breeding strategy. It amounts to a lot of shoving around and some rare biting, but it's a stress on whatever they're targeting. And then some males won't show any of these aggressive behaviors at all, although they're still going to be very single minded in their breeding attempts.

If you do end up with a male, when he is mature and does get that breeding itch in his... brain... it's important to pay attention to his skin again. They can end up scraping themselves against whatever the target of their affections is and can end up scraping their legs (especially the back legs) against the edge of their own shell. Not usually too badly if they do, but it's important- as with any open wound- to keep it clean and watch it for signs of infection.

Again, THANKS!
You have given me a lot of useful info, as well as other things that I need to consider.
Feeding shouldn't be a problem since I live in a rural area of a 'redneck' county--feed stores & roadside produce stands are numerous. I don't shop the pet stores for ANYthing.
As for the pig blanket, if you are talking about the heaters, I have some knowledge of them. As for lifting--that's what I have grown sons for...
As for the predators, the only one I would have to give slight consideration to would actually be the gator--though, thankfully, we only get 3-4 footers now & then! We don't get too many possums, armadillos, foxes because of the dogs & I don't know that we have any local coyotes.
I have a good snake vet already, so I'll have to check with him to see how knowledgeable he is with torts.
It may take a while, but maybe by the end of the summer I'm thinking I'll have this set up and ready to go.
You've been a great help!

i live in nc and keep my sulcatas outside from early spring to late fall. we usually get a decent amount of rain but that doesnt seem to bother my guys. i keep mine in a chain linked dog pen and he seems to do real well. they like to eat grass as well as everything else i give them so when they have eaten enough grass from one spot they just push the cage over to the next. their like little bull dozers they will push everything around, the only problem that i have had with chain link fence is that if the tortoise works at it long enough it can and will find a way out. i check my fence every day.
i live at the beach and i dont want some person on vacation finding him wondering along and thinking hes a see turtle of some sort and throwing him in he ocean. i take him to reptile demonstrations that i do at a local museum and the first question i get asked about him is "what type of see turtle is he".
also even though they are desert animals you still need to watch the heat just make sure they have some place to hide from the sun if need be.
these are very interesting animals, kind of like a dog of the reptile world. if i let mine out he will actually follow me around, and their not as slow as many people think if they see a flower they almost take of like a race horse to get it.

sorry its sea turtle not see

Thanks, Matt!
So what do you do with yours during the winter--how many do you have & how big are they?