KelliH and others Banned? Why?

Originally Posted by lucille

We both love kids, Sammy. I'm not into geckos that much, until Laura posted I wasn't sure if there was a way that all of us could connect again on some human level. Here it is, family. It is all I've got to offer, Sammy, to show that we are too polarized, that we need to step back and see the good others may have within them.
This thread is way out of control. We can do something good, or not, I guess it's our choice.

Instead of patronizing Sammy by off topic posting a very personal thing (he made in a thread he choose to divulge the tragedy), in one of the absolute worst threads ever on fauna, if you have nothing to offer, why not just stay out of it? Novel idea I know. I've stayed out of this thread for the most part, because I see friends on both sides spewing a lot of garbage, and it's just too ugly. Prior to offering this friendly advice, I also haven't participated as I felt I had nothing to offer.

I just one to say.

Kelli did not make this site out of spite. She mentioned making a site a long long time ago. She came to me about it. She said she always thought about making a forum. She mentioned making a site when she was a mod on TRR. Yeah she was a mod there. Kelli is good people.

Now take my post anyway you want. But you all know I do not make things up. I just felt the need to post sinse she came to me about building a site. Many people have. Some follow through. I help anyone that needs it. Even if I do not host the site. And no I do not host Kelli's site. 75% of the people that come to me I set up elsewhere and help them in anyway I can.

But Kelli and Marcia are good people. Robin is also. And many people here are too. Just becuase another gets on anothers nerves does not mean much. Just means hey you get on their nerves.

For the person that said Kellis site will not be as great as fauna or will nto give as much to the hobby in 5 years. I seen them posts about Fauna about 5 years ago.............

Yeah and everyone knows where I stand. Back to your thread. See yeah.

I just one to say.

Kelli did not make this site out of spite. She mentioned making a site a long long time ago. She came to me about it. She said she always thought about making a forum. She mentioned making a site when she was a mod on TRR. Yeah she was a mod there. Kelli is good people.

Now take my post anyway you want. But you all know I do not make things up. I just felt the need to post sinse she came to me about building a site. Many people have. Some follow through. I help anyone that needs it. Even if I do not host the site. And no I do not host Kelli's site. 75% of the people that come to me I set up elsewhere and help them in anyway I can.

But Kelli and Marcia are good people. Robin is also. And many people here are too. Just becuase another gets on anothers nerves does not mean much. Just means hey you get on their nerves.

For the person that said Kellis site will not be as great as fauna or will nto give as much to the hobby in 5 years. I seen them posts about Fauna about 5 years ago.............

Yeah and everyone knows where I stand. Back to your thread. See ya

Originally Posted by robin s.

as much as you may think you know kelli's site was not started out of spite it had been something she had been thinking about for a long time. kelli is not a hateful or spitefull person. she doesnt hate anyone on here not even rich. i would suggest you call her and talk to her to find out exactly the type of person she is. here yall are making her out to be a hatefull vindictive spiteful person but if you really know her she is not. she if she wanted could have many reasons to be hateful, spitefull and vendictive but honestly she is not that kind of person. like i said give her a call and you can find out for yourself. she is a very peaceful, person. if anything she is filled with sorrow and pain, but certainly not hate and spitefullness.

I don't know Kelli, but I do know her site, or at least the way it is beginning to take shape. An element or two or three or four with their own vision of what the board will be used for and completely (according to you) outside the concept of what Kelli planned and started the site for originally. The spitefulness of her members to say such things about members here being no where near the caliber of people that frequent there? Ahhhhh...yes...thats what I am talking about dear. This is not about Kelli or her character or her feelings. This about some of you, her members and close friends, who didn't think to give her a break and respect her vision before bringing the spitefulness here.

Its nice you guys stir the pot and we all have to feel bad because Kelli's going through a tough time right now. Why don't you suck it up, if you can, and be a friend for her today, tomorrow, and the next day, by taking a break from your asinine comments and followed meaningless justifications of them.

What will you say next, Robin? That Rich saved this latest post on the eve of the anniversary of Haydens unfortunate passing? That he's an insensitive bum? I'll bet you would if you could.

And saw another 100 + posts, so I kind of knew it was not all "Happy Fathers Day" wishes. Rich, while its hard to embrace anything about this long nauseating event, I have to count myself in the group that sees some context in your revelation. I believe that Marcia's husband Glenn's post here, and the flood of rep points, was very petty, and apparently very much in character for the major players there, and their usual suspect sycophants who still want to debate here. Kind of continually deflates the argument about a "test phase thread in a site that no one was supposed to see" excuse that was extended so many times, to include in just about every sincere apology?

Laura, we trade views often enough, but I want to repeat this part of your "WTF" post:

I am not a gecko person though I have owned them in the past and this sight is not only about geckos....So Kelli starts her own sight that revolves around her passion and her love...geckos.

Again, in reference to Kelli and Marcia, who I believe acted a bit in tandem in launching Kelli's site, it would seem that the first thing being revolved around in Kelli's site was not a passion for geckos. I look forward to the day when they and their supporters and "all the good leo people" can actually get on with revolving around geckos. To quote General Honore (of New Orleans fame), and to the consternation of a few (eh Ro, only cause you'll be reaching for the "report abuse" button) I will once again make the generic statement that a few people are still "stuck on stupid".

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Yeah. Right. Innocent again, eh?

Here is a screen shot of when "Glenn" registered here:



June 4, 2006

So "he" has been a lurker for a "long time" and just coincidentally when Marcia got involved in starting that thread over on Kelli's site, decides to register HERE. Obviously Marcia does not talk to her "husband" and he did not know about the controversy going on, I guess.

Then on June 15th, again oblivious to what has been going on, just out of the clear blue sky posts his observation in that "lurker" thread. And then, just as coincidentally, word of this post gets to Marcia (who, of course has not only been oblivious to her "husband's" post as he is oblivious to the controversy she has kicked up with her "human failings") and friends and within minutes they ALL coincidentally decide to post the positive karma points.

Yep, I believe it. Looks like the halos are all still intact above your heads.

But tell me, when are you all going to just grow up? I don't go to Kelli's site to try to inflict damage there so what the hell are you coming here for? Rhetorical question, I know.

Now, let's clear the air a bit about the roots of this entire conflict.

And as for Kelli, this whole situation revolved around Chris Johnson and his actions which I took exception to. And obviously some of her "friends" have chosen to make a religious crusade out of it. Here is the original email I sent to Kelli after Chris took a private message from me to try to get him to tone down what appeared to me and others as a campaign on HIS part for his own reasons:



And I do need to interject this comment here about the timing of this whole incident. When Hayden was killed, I didn't know a thing about it until I was trying to catch up on my stack of several hundred emails from getting back from one of the rare mini vacations my wife and I take. I had been away for 4 days of so, just rolled in the door and find all this going on. Anyone who works with live animals, especially right at the onset of egg hatching knows what it is like, and quite honestly, although it was certainly a tragic event that I was told about, quite honestly, I just could not devote all, or even a large portion, of my attention towards it. So there were PMs and emails flying every which way while I am just trying to get everything back together here from being away and preparing for hatching season. So no, I really don't know the exact sequence of events that took place, or at least don't remember them because I had necessary things in my own life that needed attending to. This is just a fyi that needs to be made to put some things into perspective.

Yeah at the time, I certainly did have my doubts that maybe I was just reading Chris wrong. Yes he was, in my opinion, extremely aggressive, abusive to others, and 100 percent gung ho in promoting his business and new website. And he did purchase a LOT of advertising on my site in that pursuit, so there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he was keenly intent on promoting his business in any way possible.

So what this all boils down to is that you (Kelli) are all saying that there just is no way possible that Chris was not doing this with even a moderate amount of his own best interests at heart. It was COMPLETELY and 100 percent unselfish and absolutely altruistic in every sense of the word. To which I say "bullsnot". Especially after events recently have unfolded about Chris, which I seriously doubt ANY of you cannot be cognizant of, for you to still adhere to that position is absolutely nonsensical. From all appearances, based on the information presented on that thread in the BOI about Chris Johnson, he has scammed MANY people with absolutely no regard whatsoever for their feelings nor concern over their hardships. And here you are claiming "Oh no! Chris would NEVER have done that sort of thing when it comes to Kelli!" Again, bullsnot. In my opinion, he saw a golden opportunity to take advantage of a situation and use it as a springboard to drive traffic to his own fledgling message board site. Anyone who thinks he was not smart enough or quick enough on the upswing to recognize that opportunity when it presented itself is either being extremely naive or just plain flat out lying to themselves.

So really what it all boils down to is that the hatred and ill will that is being projected towards me, this site, Lucille, and others ALL stems from this one incident where Kelli, Marcia, Robin, and others are quite frankly choosing sides in to believe Chris Johnson over this side of the equation. And regardless of what recent past events have shown in black and white and irrefutable proof, YOU all still chose to cling to your now dark hearted and baseless beliefs. Why? Because it just feels good?

Kelli, I was NOT responsible for the death of your child. I had nothing at all to do with that. I know you need someone to hate and rail against because of the cards fate dealt to you, but I am NOT that one. I never did anything to harm you. Who was the one who brought this to you? Maybe some day you will be able to pull out of this destructive unreasoning hatred you have in your heart, but with your "friends" with their own hatred filled hearts standing by your side whispering their own hatred filled thoughts in your ears, I seriously doubt you are strong enough to break out of what you are trapped in.

You created your own website in anger. You did so because of hatred in your heart because of your own perceived wrongs inflicted upon you by me and this site. Your intentions were to try to harm me and this site with your actions. You were and apparently are not doing this with any real good intentions whatsoever. You just wanted to hurt ME because of this forced ignorance of the truth of the situation that has become a home for your mind. You allowed that thread that Marcia created on your site to go on with your rooting for the derogatory trash being spouted there and putting your own hate laced two cents in as well.

I cannot change the way you think or feel. All I can do is to present the facts and you can either deal with it or not. I believe you have fixated on the good that did come from the auctions held by Chris and because of that good, have chosen to completely ignore the fact that he had his own self interested stake in it too and USED you for his own purposes. I chose to call him down on it, even recognizing the tiger I was grabbing by the tail. And because of my recognizing that purpose and his then making it a PUBLIC issue, again to further his own purposes, you have chosen to make me the bad guy for it.

So over THIS you have decided to just fill your heart with hatred and refuse to let go of it even when the facts are just staring you in the face.

Very well then, Kelli. You just go ahead and believe whatever the hell it is you want to believe for your own personal reasons. And take your "friends" with you as well.

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

Instead of patronizing Sammy by off topic posting a very personal thing (he made in a thread he choose to divulge the tragedy), in one of the absolute worst threads ever on fauna, if you have nothing to offer, why not just stay out of it? Novel idea I know. I've stayed out of this thread for the most part, because I see friends on both sides spewing a lot of garbage, and it's just too ugly. Prior to offering this friendly advice, I also haven't participated as I felt I had nothing to offer.

I figured someone would turn the olive branch into a bludgeon. This all started a year ago, as referenced above and many are promoting the divisiveness because of their own personal agendas.
John, you trivialize death in your hunt for argument, that is sad.

Well Jim...Rich removed the report abuse button. But you are VERY welcome!

Originally Posted by critical bill

Five years from now Kelli's site wont even be close in the quality of content to what fauna could provide in its first year starting. This site was designed with good intentions and people know that. Kelli's was formed with spite and people know that. )

I try to stay out of this thread, because I see garbage from both (or all) sides, but come on Chuck, your unconditional worship of this site is really showing to much. Don't get me wrong I like this site too, but there have been mistakes and garbage coming from EVERYWHERE. Your above comment is ridiculous on several points.

First speak for yourself. I do not think Kelli's site was started out of spite. Sure there was a thread started there that a lot of people didn't like, but it was one thread about ranting and raving, and every site has one, Fauna has one. In fact it is even more "exclusive" than most sites, because you have to pay to see the garbage that is spewed there. I bet there is all kinds of talking behind people's backs in there, and that seems to be one of the biggest complaints about what happened on Kelli's site. Can we say hypocrites? Sure we can, and the "anybody can join, so it's not behind people's backs" is out right BS. It is behind people's backs if one has to pay to see it. That said let me get back to my point......In this day and age every joe blow has a website, and many many have forums, so to think that one of the most well known, and respected (in spite of what is happening here, and how you may feel) gecko people in this business would not put a forum up, is naive to say the least.

Second do you even remember this site in the beginning? It wasn't "designed with good intentions" in the noble way you mean it. It was started because Rich got burned and wanted to let everyone know, and to try to get some resolution or restitution. The forums started very slowly, in fact after years they still lagged behind what they could be, and it is getting better, especially after Rich implemented the forum moderator (ambassador), so your statement is really inacurate IMHO.

Lastly, the demeaning statements about quality, make you look petty. Sure there is a thread about mini golf, big deal. The threads that get the most traffic, posts, and attention, are the threads dealing with Geckos, and there is a lot of quality there. That site is one of the fastest growing sites I've personally seen, and the number of "new posts" when I visit the site is more than most of the sites I belong to, and even sometimes gives this site a run for it's money. Not to bad considering the site is, what a couple weeks old?

Really my intent is not to degrade fauna nor worship the other site, as I like both. Fauna has the BOI, and a lot of good forums and people. Geckoforums has a lot of quality Gecko info, and good people also. My intent is to show that I feel your jabs, and those of a couple others, including Bobby, may be leaving a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of good people. Sure mention that you think what they did is wrong (as you have all done on the first couple pages of this thead), but for you guys to continually harp, rant, belittle, and castigate every post, and person is getting old, and is continuing one of the worst threads ever and is detracting from all the good, including reputations.
Just how I feel folks. Rip away.
John

No problem Ro. To all who think that the shoe fits, that is how it was intended, and feel myself just as likely to audition foot size as the next. As lamented by many, this thread, and its sister thread in Kelli's site, has been too irresistable of an opportunity for people to show their backside, and is a bit lacking of any redeeming qualities. Ro, I am sure that we agree that it will be nice when all this fades. To those of you who habitually get caught up in the mud ........ seems there will always be the "usual suspect" crowd that won't be hard to find when threads like this need some action.

Originally Posted by lucille

I figured someone would turn the olive branch into a bludgeon. This all started a year ago, as referenced above and many are promoting the divisiveness because of their own personal agendas.
John, you trivialize death in your hunt for argument, that is sad.

You've got it wrong. You trivialize it by patronizing people when you have nothing to ad, as you stated yourself. You must continue to interject yourself into these threads, but when you have nothing substantive to say you make an improper and again patronizing, off topic (whether Rich talked about an unrelated tragic event first) post about someone elses tragedy. Furthermore I am trivializing you, not death, and for you to say such a think is offensive. Not only was I a paramedic for 8 years, and a damn good one at that, but I've also got a post here about my sister (look at it, and maybe you will get some insight into how I feel about such things).

Once again so maybe you will comprehend.

I do not trivialize death, at all, but I do find it offensive when you use it to further your own "I must involve myself in this thread, even if it is off topic, and patronizing" mentality. Especially when as you admitted yourself, you had nothing to add.
Lastly, I tried to put you on ignore, long ago, but it won't let me because you are a moderator, so please put me on ignore, so my "trivialness" won't be any of your concern. Thanks