Second Breeding Attempt

I could see disliking the use of titles like "coral snow" from someone who is actually breeding and selling the animals, but as a reference term for myself I reserve the right to call an animal what I wish, lol. I could call it the Fenkelstein Boa if I chose, as long as I know what I'm referring to.

However, polygenic traits that follow patterns of inheritance a bit more complicated than simple Mendelian genetics still have a somewhat predictable pattern of expression in that the f1 generation (when bred to another animal with similar qualities) is far more likely to produce animals with those coloration patterns than, say, a snow with pastel parentage bred to a simple anery with no pastel coloration in the parentage. Statistical probability is significantly higher given the pattern of gene interaction that, to an extent, has a heritable basis. That doesn't mean all the babies will be pastel, or that even half will, but it does mean they are far more likely to. Same premise behind gambling, but if you never risk you never win.

Thank you for explaining how selective breeding works, I've never made any selectively bred animals. Scooter, from reading your stuff here, it seems like you're really happy with yourself about knowing some terms. This is fine and good, but don't get ahead of yourself on this one. There are a lot of people around here with a lot of first-hand experience with these issues. I believe that this thought was also pondered on by Tommy a few pages ago.

Also, on a side note, is english your first language? This is just personal curiosity on my part.

Chris

Wha....? Oh no, I'm a biologist, lol. I'm not trying to throw out lots of terms to sound happy with myself... I suppose I don't always consider that jargon like that tends to be specific to the science rather than the hobby. I just happen to be part of both arenas... However, technically any breeding we perform is selective breeding, since we carefully select animals with specific traits to breed together. The process above is artificial selection, specifically directional selection in favor of the pastel coloration. I wasn't referring to experience in any arena, nor was I contradictory. What I did say is scientifically verifiable; breeding together animals that look pastel or have pastel colored individuals in their parentage is statistically more likely to produce pastel babies. This is how pastels were created in the first place. There's no presumption about it, all breeders do it.

Yes, English is my first language. As far as I am aware, I've been speaking in plain English. None of the words I've used are from any other language, though as I admitted earlier, some are jargon used in biological sciences rather than the herpetocultural hobby. I apologize for that, and will attempt to be more aware of my word usage in future posts.

With your response to my selective breeding comment, you're obviously not familiar with some of my animals. I'm about as aware of how pastel boas are produced as a person can be. I'm also fully aware that not all animals from pastel litters have the genetics to make more nice pastels.

As for the language question, the problem wasn't with what words you're using. There are some people down here in the south that know some fancy words as well. I just noticed that some of your usages/grammar were a bit awkward and that made me curious.

Chris

Grammatical rules are different between disciplines, and because of that scientific articles often use grammar that seems "awkward" to people more familiar with literary or media writing. That likely explains the awkward grammar.

Again, I was not attempting to use fancy words. This is how I speak. I apologize if some of the terms I use are a big heavy. I trust that none of the terms in my last couple of posts are too terribly difficult to understand.

If you do produce pastel boas, you will understand what I'm saying. I will state the information again, only this time I will try to be as clear as possible. Breeding together boas with pastel coloration, or pastel coloration in their parentage is MORE LIKELY to yield babies with pastel coloration. Never did I say "breeding pastels to pastels yields all pastel babies." I said boas with pastel coloration, when bred together, are MORE LIKELY to yield pastel colored babies. You take the pretty pink ones and breed them to other pretty pink ones and their babies are MORE LIKELY to have pretty pink colors. That's what I've said the whole time.

Originally Posted by Scooter1685

I apologize if some of the terms I use are a big heavy.

I meant to say "a bit heavy." I made a typo, lol.

Originally Posted by Scooter1685

I could see disliking the use of titles like "coral snow" from someone who is actually breeding and selling the animals, but as a reference term for myself I reserve the right to call an animal what I wish, lol. I could call it the Fenkelstein Boa if I chose, as long as I know what I'm referring to.

Yea but why would you really label it genetically if you didn't plan on breeding or selling it. I guess it okay if it's for your own reference but anything else I think would be unfair to the other party. To me my wife resemble the singer pink but I know better then to get her a gig singing & dancing.

Originally Posted by Scooter1685

However, polygenic traits that follow patterns of inheritance a bit more complicated than simple Mendelian genetics still have a somewhat predictable pattern of expression in that the f1 generation (when bred to another animal with similar qualities) is far more likely to produce animals with those coloration patterns than, say, a snow with pastel parentage bred to a simple anery with no pastel coloration in the parentage. Statistical probability is significantly higher given the pattern of gene interaction that, to an extent, has a heritable basis. That doesn't mean all the babies will be pastel, or that even half will, but it does mean they are far more likely to. Same premise behind gambling, but if you never risk you never win.

Maybe I'm not understanding fully but I dont know if I can agree with that, at least not enough to pay for it when buying a snake.

Ferrari Thread Bomb:


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Chris AKA JCCS, is very well aware of how "pastel" boas work, sir.

Originally Posted by ShadowAceD

Ferrari Thread Bomb:


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Chris AKA JCCS, is very well aware of how "pastel" boas work, sir.

lol, a picture really is worth a thousand words. That's a beautiful snake, luck alone doesn't take anyone that far.

Oh... My... Goodness... I am so sorry, I just re-read my previous post and it sounds totally offensive! I didn't mean it to be offensive, I meant it to be clear. Based on our conversations it seemed to me that a miscommunication had occurred. Please allow me to explain and hopefully salvage the situation a bit.

I have read about the pastels being bred from the same animals that originally produced the kahl albino strain. Through selective breeding, more colorful specimens were bred together over generations until boas looking similar to our current pastels were produced. This process is called artificial directional selection by biologists. That is the information I was going on, and if you like I will look through my recently viewed pages tab to come up with the site I found that information on.

In my previous post, I was under the impression that a misunderstanding had occurred and I was attempting to be clear. In that attempt I underlined and bolded the words "more likely" 3 times. I intended to do that once. I also repeated myself, and it really does sound patronizing. That was not my intention. I do apologize. Even I recognize that it sounds that way, though I certainly didn't intend it that way.

I respect your experience and your input. In the field I work in, individuals who speak plainly are rarely taken seriously. Scientific jargon is viewed as the clearest and most concise way to refer to many objects and processes, and many terms may refer to slight variations on the same thing. I have become far more accustomed to writing scientific jargon and dealing with other biologists than with other people who are not biologists.

That is not to say that breeders are inferior to biologists. Quite the contrary; I find that the biological approach without the herpetoculturist experience lacks a great deal of information that can only be gained through hands-on application of the theories and ideas presented and created by biologists. Basically, we need keepers and breeders to help us understand the reality of our theories.

I was trying to clear up what I thought was a misunderstanding, and intended no disrespect. I do apologize again, because even to me it looks patronizing and offensive. I am sorry. I didn't mean it that way. Totally my fault.