Piebald Hognose

Does Terry Lilley have a website?

I found a website for Terry Lilley at:

www.centralcoastreptiles.com

There, under the last heading of his available animal "Price List" section, he had the following animals listed:

1.2 Het Pied Western Hognose Snakes- first ever captive hatched ....................................$1500 pr.

He had a picture of his supposedly first ever produced hypomelanistic woma pythons, but nothing on the pied hognose.

Dr. Esposito wrote in another thread:

"A number of people including myself bought what were supposed to be het piebald Hognose from Terry Lilley. It turns out it was a scam and he never had any. If you are smart you will not have any dealings with this man. He is a crook. "

I know that there has been a lot of speculation about a lack of evidence of Terry Lilley having a piebald hognose, but I was not aware that it had been proven he did not ever have one in his possession to account for his supposed hets.  Do you now have such evidence?

It's faulty logic to say that because you cannot prove he does have the animal, he does not, in fact, have it and never has.  Surely, as a doctor, you recognize that lack of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of lacking.  

It may very well be found out that Lilley has been scamming people (the initial evidences suggest such), but we should probably nail that down tightly before we call him a crook.  Or have I missed something?

Your point is well taken. However, if he really sold het pied Hognose I would think he would be happy to refund money to dissatisfied customers who can return the snakes in good shape. If they are what he claims they should be easy to sell if he can prove they are what he says. If Terry Lilley is not a crook he can easily clear his name. Until he does I stand by my opinion that he is a liar and a crook.
Jon Esposito

Terry Lilley has offered to help me sell the Hognose I bought from him and says that there is more than one male pied. If this is in fact the truth then I may be wrong (and am the first to admit it). So, for the time being I retract my opinions and will see what happens.
Jon Esposito

If there really is one (or even two) pied hognose (what are the odds they are both male breeders) why is there only one doctored, fake picture available? Evan Stahl

Guys...I've got a serious question for you all, since I'm basically photographically-impaired (as any of you that have seen my pictures can attest...lol)...but...how can you tell that the picture was doctored and is fake? If, as you say, it wasn't even Terry's picture...is it POSSIBLE that Terry could have taken a picture of the picture and therefore it came out blurry? I've spoke to Terry a couple of times and he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would pull off such a blatant scam? Anybody? ....Neil

Hey Neil, what's up???
Well, it seems to me if someone actually "took a picture of a picture" spam_they're obviously "photographically-impaired" far beyond our wildest dreams, LOL!!! I don't know Terry, so I can't comment on his practices, etc...but I think it's a little odd that the picture in question has been removed from the site. There may be a good explanation, and then again maybe not. It's got me more than a little curious, I mean, add the empty frame formerly known as the "possibly altered" Piebald Hognose pic to the "dozens of people" Evan knows who currently have unresolved matters with him, it just may equal *BUYER BEWARE* but I'm mathematically-impaired...the Ohio State Dept. of Taxation can attest to that, LOL!! Again...I don't know him, but I am familiar with his name, so maybe we can get some feedback from people that have dealt with him personally. It may help clean this up a little. Napavalleysnakes says the animal(s) do exist, so maybe it's for real.

Hi Troy....long time!

Hey...you think YOU'RE bad at math?? I can't count to 21 less I'm NAKED! And that's only if I'm excited and it isn't cold out! lmao

I sure would like to know if there is such a snake out there, I wouldn't mind breeding a couple myself!....Neil

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If there really is one (or even two) pied hognose (what are the odds they are both male breeders) why is there only one doctored, fake picture available? Evan Stahl </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Steve, who has proven himself to be one of the most trutworthy guys in this business, has attested to the existence of a piebald hognose and it's first generation offspring earlier in this thread.

The point of contention is whether or not that the "hets" being offered are the offspring of this animal or not.