Second Breeding Attempt

I've heard Jeff Ronne mention that, maintaining at constant temps rather than dropping for a cyclic approach. I've never really had a successful breeding, as I said. I'm just curious, if temps are maintained year round how do you attempt to trigger seasonal breeding responses?

Most of the breeders I've read about that don't cycle seem to prefer a "let's see when they're ready" type of approach, by watching for specific behaviors. One spoke of breeding only when they refuse food (which would be NEVER for some of mine). Another spoke of breeding only when he noticed a pre-ovulation swell. Another mentioned just housing pairs together year-round and having great success nearly every year, without altering anything including feeding schedule. It seems highly variable.

Since this is my second attempt, and my first went so poorly, I'm kind of using a combination approach. I'm combining Jeff Ronne's advice in "The Boa Constrictor Manual" with my friend's advice. My reasons for this are simple; clearly Jeff knows what he's talking about with regard to breeding, and my friend has produced a couple of successful clutches.

As I mentioned earlier, any and all advice is welcome. Thanks guys, for your support and for your advice. I'm totally new at breeding, and the hands-on experience you guys have is more valuable than the biological analyses my professors provide. At least, as regards actual breeding, lol.

Ambrosius is still refusing his food. I suppose I could stop offering and start his cycling early... I'd really rather he ate just a few more times though. He's my baby and I don't want to risk stressing his body any more than I have to. Perhaps I'm paranoid.... He is huge and probably fine, but I worry about him going without food for 4 months or so...

You need to clear your head, there appears to
be nothing you understand"completely".
There is no magic to breeding BCI,
one boy snake and one girl snake added to one box then detained.
Snakes will do, what snakes do if given the time.

When you over load and over lap public forum fodder
the info never gels,you need to dig in and pursue a viable plan.
Try something different the next go etc.
Crawl,Walk,Run.......

Originally Posted by Metachrosis

You need to clear your head, there appears to
be nothing you understand"completely".
There is no magic to breeding BCI,
one boy snake and one girl snake added to one box then detained.
Snakes will do, what snakes do if given the time.

With so many different approaches all leading to success stories, should there be anything else I understand completely? Even some of the best known breeders like Jeff Ronne & Brian Gundy admit that there is a large element of luck to breeding boas. But I fail to see why that means I shouldn't chronicle my attempts to keep a track record and help me point out exactly what did and what did not work out for me. Additionally, in the process I may receive tips from several individuals who have bred successfully, and those tips may just be valuable and help me avoid making mistakes. I'm not simply breeding stock here. Ambrosius is my favorite boa, and I care a great deal for his well-being. I've cared for him and raised him since he was as big around as my finger. If I were to make a stupid mistake that resulted in some injury to him, I'd never forgive myself. Better to post here and have at least some chance that someone will catch on if I am making such a mistake.

Originally Posted by Metachrosis

When you over load and over lap public forum fodder
the info never gels,you need to dig in and pursue a viable plan.
Try something different the next go etc.
Crawl,Walk,Run.......

This post is intended as something of a blog. I type exactly what my plans are and what I'm doing step-by-step. I can and do write very similar things in my personal notes (defecation, shedding, feeding, etc.), only here others can see what I'm posting. That means that I may potentially receive feedback that helps my understanding and possibly my success. It also means that other individuals in a similar position can read this, and possibly avoid some of the mistakes I made.

Perhaps I'm a bit odd in this fashion, but I actually learn from things like this often. I search for and read first-hand accounts of exactly what people did, how they did it, why they did it, and what the results were. This helps me to analyze reactions and attempt to apply the underlying concepts to my particular situation. It's similar to watching a documentary, or reading an article in a scientific journal. It describes the end goal, the means to get there, and then chronicles the process and results.

I suppose at this point my post is of considerable length and possibly repetitive. I do apologize, I'm simply confused about your purpose in posting that particular response.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Originally Posted by Scooter1685

I'm not simply breeding stock here. Ambrosius is my favorite boa, and I care a great deal for his well-being. I've cared for him and raised him since he was as big around as my finger. If I were to make a stupid mistake that resulted in some injury to him, I'd never forgive myself. Better to post here and have at least some chance that someone will catch on if I am making such a mistake.

I suppose at this point my post is of considerable length and possibly repetitive. I do apologize, I'm simply confused about your purpose in posting that particular response.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

I cant speak for his comment on his behalf but I assume what he is trying to say is your jumping around with the advice from good references when you need to decide how you want to do it. Here are my thoughts... Hopefully your successful but the bottom line I think is no matter what you do you cant force nature. It's going to come down to the boas.

The names & resources are familiar & the knowledge you can gain from the personal experience of others is extremely valuable & respected by many including myself, yet you seem to be very hesitant in your own decisions. It almost seems like your looking for approval more then your looking for advice because you kind of skipped around a few topics. No one is telling you what to do or whats right & wrong, it's your choice. The things mentioned were only said to help give you things to think about so you can make the decision best for yourself.

I asked why you decided on 2 females rather just 1. I only asked because being a male myself I know that more females equals more stress. Sorry ladies that was a joke, but on a serious note, I think you knew it already because you mentioned his current feeding habits & the "risk stressing his body". It was also mention by someone boas have bred successfully without dropped temperatures & again it seems like you know the risk involved with taking them actions. Your gonna be responsible alone if you fail, not anyone's advice or a book but your also going to be the person responsible if your successful too. I wish you the best of luck in what you do, but you need to decide 100% what your doing first.

Ask Jeff what he means by "luck" as you quote it
in breeding boa's. successful reproduction and hitting morph percentages etc
are entirely different

Originally Posted by Durante

I cant speak for his comment on his behalf but I assume what he is trying to say is your jumping around with the advice from good references when you need to decide how you what to it. Here are my thoughts...

Originally Posted by Metachrosis

Ask Jeff what he means by "luck" as you quote it
in breeding boa's. successful reproduction and hitting morph percentages etc
are entirely different

Sorry Tommy didn't mean to cut right in a few minutes earlier & speak for you, I should have waited a little bit or just posted my opinion.

@ Durante - I see what you mean, lol. My mistake. I did post exactly what my plan is, though as you mentioned it is scattered rather than coherent or cohesive. I should have organized my thoughts better before creating this thread. My mistake.

Also, I suppose to some extent I am looking for approval. My first attempt was a complete flop, and although I did learn from it I also felt terrible. My Kalypso must have had a hard time passing that many slugs, and poor Ambrosius probably didn't like being yanked away while he was still breeding. The worst part though was the babies. They were so tiny and adorable and helpless, and there was nothing I could do to save them once they were born. All the stuff I should have done takes place before birth. In all honesty, I suppose that by "approval" what I mean is that I'm looking to make certain I'm not screwing anything up as badly as I did last time. I do have a definite plan, though it is a compilation of tidbits from different sources. I will be going partially by trial-and-error and partially by the advice of peers. I simply want to make sure those errors aren't going to risk the lives of my boas.

@ Metachrosis - Look here at what I'm saying; these are direct quotes from the book. (Page 64)"I recommend having at least one male available per female." (Also from page 64) "When breeding boas, some breeders use multiple males, but I have found that this is unnecessary and less effective than using a single male." These two statements are somewhat contradictory, no? Yet they were found on the same page together.

Another example on page 65; "....in an effort to follow and find the female, which (hopefully) is producing pheromones to attract a mate.... If the male is not courting the female after this period, remove it, feed the female a small meal or two, and keep them separated for approximately three weeks. After three weeks, reintroduce the male following the same instructions as before." Certainly seems to indicate that this doesn't always work well. Hence the luck thing.

And more examples, "This reintroduction procedure can be repeated three or four times in a single season... Often when the male is introduced to the female, he shows no interest in courtship."
An excerpt from page 71, "....boas born during the early part of the possible gestation period are more likely to still be inside the tough sack, usually with huge bellies full of yolk or a yolk sack still attached to them. Offspring born at the tail end of the possible gestation period are more likely to have absorbed all of their yolk, and emerge already out of the sack." Sure sounds like luck would be a significant factor in having healthy baby boas.
Page 72, "Different females seem to have different ways of accomplishing this." Oh look, more of that variability I was talking about, where different things can all lead to the same result.
Page 74, "Often one or two babies, or sometimes the entire litter, is slightly premature." Look! Another place where luck seems to play a role in successful procreation of boas.

Sometimes things go wrong. It may be because your snakes simply don't like each other. It may be that the female happens to give premature birth, resulting in reduced viability. It may be the fault of the keeper, not leaving them together long enough or having inappropriate temps or humidity. YOU feel free to ask around; sometimes things just happen. This is what I meant by luck. As you can see from my examples, when luck is mentioned it IS sometimes referencing the actual breeding rather than finding new genetics.

You don't need to read these ya know. I would certainly appreciate help, but the type of things you're posting seem to contain little helpful information and lots of criticism. If there is something specific you see that I could change about what I'm doing, please feel free to let me know. If you're just trying to say that what I'm doing is odd, or not what you would do, point made. Thanks for your time.

It occurs to me that I may be reacting more severely than circumstances warrant I apologize for that. Today my pain medications aren't doing their job very well, and that can sometimes increase my grouch-factor. Add to that the fact that midterms begin tomorrow for me, and it's safe to assume I'm likely reacting more poorly than I ordinarily might.

However, I would like to point out a few specific things about those messages that sort of lend to them sounding less helpful and more critical. Take this for what it's worth, I'm not trying to give a lecture on etiquette or anything. Just pointing a few things out.

~Durante, when he posts, demonstrates in his writing that he has read and understood my posts. He does this by referencing the things I have mentioned, and responding to specific parts of my posts. In this way it is quite clear what specific things he is speaking about, and he also makes clear and specific recommendations. He is always careful to mention that others may have better advice, which is prudent and cautious, though I suspect he's read enough on these forums to be able to reproduce some of the successes

~Metachrosis, in his posts, begins with things like "you need to clear your head" which seems to imply that my thinking is somehow impaired. He also says things like, "Ask Jeff what he means by "luck" as you quote it in breeding boas. successful reproduction and hitting morph percentages etc are entirely different" seeming to imply that I am incapable of understanding plain text written clearly in front of me.

Instead of things like this, which do not point out specific things items that could be altered to yield greater success nor specifically how to alter them, perhaps point out exactly what part of my thread indicates that my thinking has become clouded. Or, in the case of the discussion about luck, perhaps less critical phrasing might be more like this (purely as an example), "That may not be the only meaning of the word 'luck' as applied to breeding boas. It could also be referring to stumbling upon a new genetic trait." This phrasing also implies that I have not taken the full meaning, but does so in a far less critical fashion that is less likely to offend.

Again, I apologize for that. Today has not been a great day for me, for several reasons, and I reacted more harshly than I ordinarily would. My bad.

Ive read thru this a few times and still cant figure a way to respond without you remaining over critical of what is said.
Its now clear by your words that you are in need of chill pill.
You have your brain so over loaded with variable breeding data,compounded by a failed first attempt at breeding,
pain,pain meds and school.

Pretty well confirms the need to "clear your head",there is a thread of anxiety,paranoia running thru every one of your post.
Human emotions are well proven to be the most detrimental to captive
instinct driven animals,proper grounding in the basics is never expounded
upon for humans to actually "GET IT"

Reptiles are very simple creatures

Originally Posted by Scooter1685

It occurs to me that I may be reacting more severely than circumstances warrant I apologize for that. Today my pain medications aren't doing their job very well, and that can sometimes increase my grouch-factor. Add to that the fact that midterms begin tomorrow for me, and it's safe to assume I'm likely reacting more poorly than I ordinarily might.

Again, I apologize for that. Today has not been a great day for me, for several reasons, and I reacted more harshly than I ordinarily would. My bad.