One eyed albino boa, should I kill him?

Crazy that after the whole post anyone would reply with such a proposition.

I still think its fine if you never sell it, or if you get it fixed (which i know can be pricey, but if you can find someone before the procedure to buy it fixed and is willing to pay the price of the procedure to get the snake) But I agree, I would kill the snake before selling it to someone who would breed it.

OK that guy who said he wanted to breed it made up my mind. I also can't believe that that person read this whole thread and still is of the mind to breed a one eyed albino. With people like that out there you have to kill it. It's that simple. The word is cull. You have to cull albino babies with bad eyes. Because even if you give the snake as a pet to one person, there is no guarantee that it will stay with hat person for the rest of it's natural life. Snakes live a long time, and there will always be people like that person. People who don't understand that the albino gene is a flawed gene. I sure hope this person read ALL these posts in an attempt to see why. All breeders should make an attempt to read about albinos in other species if they want to understand this. In dogs, the albino gene is so flawed there are no albinos for sale. In people it's a flawed gene. Look in all the species where albinism occurs and you'll see whats up with this. It isn't just another pretty color for boas, it is a genetic screw up, one with consequences. I urge you all to cull screwed up babies period. I am not a cold person, I love boas, but what you do now will effect boa breeding for the rest of time.

*sigh*

Caden Chapman

"You see a lot on the forums about people breeding albinos to albino and how you have problems with that. I am a Biologist.. I believe in statistics. We have produced multiple litters of albino to albino, and only had problems with one baby." Tracy Barker, Sunglow Boa interview with Tracy Barker!, Interviews forum, www.redtailboa.net.

Seems that the Barkers have somehow managed to avoid the hazards of breeding albino x albino. Can we learn something from them?

As far as I know, the claim that albino eye problems are genetic has gone from a guess to a conclusion without ever being tested. I think testing should be done.

As far as I know, the claim that albino eye problems are genetic has gone from a guess to a conclusion without ever being tested. I think testing should be done.

Paul,

There's a link in the GBD forum to extensive studies conducted in albino individuals. They all describe the same things we witness in albino boas. The way you can get away with it is by outbreeding (as opposed to inbreeding) your animals. You have to introduce new genes in your genetic pool rather than breed the same animals to each other over and over again.

Regards.

The whole point here is to make the albino strain strong by outcrossing, and to avoid genetic defects. Just because one breeder has has only one problem (with how many breeding of albino X albino I wonder, you'll note that she doesn't say). She doesn't say she recommends breeding with a genetic defect, much less recommending breeding albino to albino. That interview was from back when the first sunglows were made! AND she HAD a defective baby!!! Wake up!!

No doubt there are other breeders who had no problems, but then there are others who have had big problems. None of these were using an albino with one eye either. What do you suppose that does to the statistical outcome, using a breeder with a known serious defect like that? What about babies who contain the genetics to made one-eyed-wonders, and will keep passing that on? Now is the time to get all those snakes with the genetic propensity for making these freaks out of the gene pool. There is no need to breed these animals. There are plenty of healthy albinos and hets. Why would you want to make screwed up beings? Why would you do that? Think.

If I had a serious genetic disability, I wouldn't want to take a chance of giving that to my kids, I would adopt. So why on earth would you want to make screwed up little critters of the type we love here? For money????

Caden Chapman

BoidSmith, the only link I could find in the General Business Discussion forum was this one:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=45406

If this is not the one you meant, could you post the URL?

Caden, I don't like one-eyed snakes. I am not arguing either against culling the one-eyed albinos or for making more. My whole point is that we need testing to determine whether or not the eye problems are in fact genetic. At this point, we just don't know. If the problems are not genetic, then hopefully we can correct whatever causes one-eyed albinos. If the problems are genetic, then we will be able to figure out just what steps are necessary to get the snakes with the genetic propensity out of the gene pool.

Paul,

No, it’s this one.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ht=taking+toll

Over three years ago I started to keep track of all the eye defects that were popping up in the ads. It’s a pretty long thread but there are some pretty good insights by several members in there.

Towards the end I posted the following link, where it describes the heritability of the traits in humans and all the different anomalies that can be seen.

http://www.opt.pacificu.edu/ce/catal...rmentPeds.html

Regards

Originally Posted by Metachrosis

and the drama finally ends ............

Did it now?

Dan, (from DNA), just curious what kind of numbers you've had? How many litters? How many albino x albino? And how many healthy albino babies vs how many bad?

I may doubt, (somewhat) the validity of the claim, (yes, even after all I have read) that this is FOR SURE caused by the albino gene. But there is not a doubt in my mind, that once the defect has been discovered in a neo, that it should be culled, and not allowed on the market at all. Yer logic, I just don't get.


Rick

He dropped a few clues as to where and where NOT to shop, no telling what kinda creature youll end up with

M/

Thanks for the URLs, Dan. I had a look at both the faunaclassifieds thread and the vision abnormality page.

The vision page had a number of problems caused by albinism. But I didn't see anything about missing eyes as a direct effect. So it's weak support for the genetics theory.

I hit the library and found a malady that can cause small and missing eyes. Other problems include lacrimation, lung abcesses with a tendency to develop pneumonia, cancellous (porous) bone, restriction of brain cavity, papilledema (which is swelling of the optic disc, where the optic nerve enters the eyeball; it is usually associated with an increase in intraocular pressure ). And on and on for a list 6 inches long in small type.

The malady is vitamin A deficiency. "Vitamin A is necessary for normal vision in animals and humans, maintenance of healthy epithelial or surface tissues and normal bone development." (P. 48 in McDowell, Lee Russell. Vitamins in animals and human nutrition. Iowa State University Press, Ames. 2nd ed., 2000, 793 pp, ISBN 0-8138-2630-6.)

Hmm. Spinal kinking in corn snakes could be related to abnormal bone formation. Bug eyes in leucistic Texas rat snakes could be related to elevated intraocular pressure.

I am not claiming that vitamin A deficiency is the one and only source of various congenital problems in snakes. I just think vitamin A deficiency should go on the list of POSSIBLE causes that need testing.

By the way, I seem to remember that someone earlier in this thread wrote that we don't see any really old albino boas. Kahl first bred the original male in 1990 and got his first albino babies in 1992. Which would make his first hets 16 years old and the first captive bred albinos 14 years old now. The original F1s and F2s could still be breeding. The original wild caught male would be in the low 20s if it is still around. In other words, only the original wild caught albino(s) came in long enough ago to be pretty old. And babies from the original F1s would be desirable from a standpoint of minimal inbreeding depression.