considering becoming first-time owner: questions

hi,

wanted a chameleon for years. now i'm 31, and have decided (or mostly decided) to get one. probably a panther; i love their color and look. i've read a number of online boards/postings/faqs/what not over the past few days, but still have a couple of questions, if anyone could be so kind.

1) i've seen a couple of places where there's space suggestions (19-38 gallons; 38 gallons; 100 gallons) dependant on the stage of growth. is baby/juvenile/adult < 3 months / 3-6 mos? / > 6 mos? > 1 year? i'd like to get one around 3 months old but from what i've read aren't sure what point in development that is and don't want to buy two cages/setups in close succession, but have read that too much space freaks them out so wondering what the age cutoffs are. and then there was the 1-gallon DIY home: i'm guessing that's strictly for newborns?

also, does it make sense to buy a cheaper, mesh reptarium-style cage for him to start off with and then move to something more sturdy once he graduates to his permanent home?

2) window or not to window? i've read placing them near a window is bad because it causes temperature fluctucuations (i live in nyc if it matters) but other places read natural sunlight is good. (so placing them near an open window and getting them unfiltered light: good or bad?)

3) i get that being near other chameleons freak them out... does that also go for any other form of life that's not supper? it sounds like it, but i haven't seen anything directly on point on it.

4) living in nyc, i don't have a spare room that he could just chill by his lonesome. so he can either get the living room, which gets some television watching, but is pretty low traffic b/c i'm not home much, or get my room, which is quieter (generally) traffic, but when i get home, i sometimes stay up late, like tonight (4.04am right now)... do they get bothered by room lights that are above them that throw off their night/day cycles? or do they not pay attention to that and rely on their own, personal light for that kind of stuff? basically, given the choice between slightly more day noise and more night light, which is the least bad? i could also fit him into my closet, at least in baby's first cage, but that's not the best ventilated. so bad option #3.

if this could all be answered by a book, that's cool, and would be my last question: if there's a, "this is really the book which is good and the must-own for someone considering buying a cham."

i appreciate any input people could give on these.

Hi Matthias

I can't tell you how big the cage will be, because there is no real answer to that.
My cages ( to adults) are 20*16*40, but larger is always better. I have all my babys in candy boxes with only a fluorescent. I know that you offen use cages with mesh, but i live in Denmark and have low temps, so i use glass.

I would never have a cage in the window, because in a summer day it can really get hot. any way all the uvb light will not go through the glass. some times i take them out of cage and put them in a plant in the window, they enjoy the light from the sun and if it gets to hot they can just walk away.

but it is a really good idea if you could put him out side in the summer/ dont know your temps), because the uvb Is really really healthy to the chams.

yes chams should never be in the same cage, but i have males in diffrent cages and they can see each other and they do fine. how would they do in the nature? you are right, there should not be to much traffic in the room, but as long as you are not having party all the week, there should be no problem. just dont have the cage near a door, so your not always working past it.

have you bin keeping any other repptiles?

hope i coud help

sorry for my bad english

Niels

First off ignore ther aforementioned GLASS ANYTHING cage idea. If you would like a dead cham soon go ahead and get one. When you see all those pretty pics of chams that people post they have put them in front of a mirror or another cham to elicit the colorful display the respond with. It is not harmful to do that here and there selodonly but when they stare at their reflection all day they will soon die of stress.
All screen is fine and do not worry about humidity and temps through out the entire cage. There should be a basking spot that is in the 90's for panther adults and a bit lower for babies. Spraying several times a day works fine or a humidifier if you are that concerned about it. I have an automated mister that does 7 cycles at 5 min each. For now you can hand mist the plants inside the cage completely 2-3 times a day and have a constant dripper for water and humidity with good results. What ever you do no glass or reflective material. It may work for some and they may say its ok but you can hopefully understand the logic of them being streesed in a mirror that it will elicit the same response in something else reflective.

Sunlight is the what we are all trying to replicate so it is the best source of UV. Any sort of glass will deflect the UVB and provide only UVA which is good for them showing off color but is not beneficial for health. The whole issue is that infront of a window with no good air flow causes high temps from magnified temps. Mine are in front of the sliding glass door but my cage is huge.

Terrariu,ms are ****y and the zippers will go out in time. If you want to spend the money on a cham now and cant spend a lot then get one but know that when you get your money saved up again you will want a good cage. The biggest cages I think that are most popular and easy to find are somethign like 24x24x48 That is a good size but I overkill everything I do in life and go big from the start, thats personal preference but not needed. Most have these cages and they are fine. I have one outside for warm summer days for good UV exposure. Mine go out about 1-2 days a week for improved health.

You need to get the supplement facts down, UV lights, Heat lights, Dripper, and spray bottle. These are a must but Exo Terra vine makes some cool decoration along with some pothos plants for vines to climb. Supplements consist of the following which are the regimen of a good breader I got 1 of my chams from.
Rep Cal Calcium with Vit D3 on tue and fri, Rep Cal Herptivite with beta carotene on mon and thur, and sticky tongue famrs Miner All WITH OUT VIT D3 on wed and sat. The with out vit D3 is important because you are already using it in the first product and too much is bad news. Lightly dust your crikets with it and serve them up. Gut load your crickets as well with a good product. I made my own but like I said I go over board with this stuff. Here are some pics.
Uv lights for that cage should be a zoo med 5.0 or 10.0. I have very powerful ones for my cage due to the size but if you are getting a 4ft tall one it wont be necessary.
The cage is hand made by me and a friend that took 2 months to finish. Get some ideas from the set up. Look closely at the lamp shades its a coll trick i did to cover up those crapy looking silver domes.

PS put the cage wher you like they will do fine. They all have individual peronalities. One of my panthers lets the dog sniff it through the cage and the other hisses and rus when it see my hand in the cage. You will get to know your pet and decide what is best for it. Sunlight through the glass will serve for them showing good color in the day times but is not beneficial for health. I leave the shades shut but trned sideways to allow for some light in but not an over whelmig amount to pervent over heating.
Look into some good lighting for UV. I love mystic bulbs from Big Appl Herp, the chams love the lights much more than the 5.o but use wth caution since the emitt high levels of UV. Some people disagree with this but if you saw my chams and their colors when under the lights you would think again. They dont react to the zoo med weak uv output bulbs at all but with these they soak it up as if they were outside. This is what we are rying to replicate and it best does so with these bulbs in my opinion. If you get one I would use the 8inch bulb and fixture for 2 cycles a day at 2 hrs each. This will prevent over exposure and give your cham much more UV.
Start askign questions and we will fire away. I dont know everythign but have had chams for 4-5 yrs with no deaths yet. So I have learned some but awlays like to learn more and try the new technology out there. What I do know is GLASS is a no no. In front of a glass door is bad at night as well because its dark outside and the bright reptile lights make a bad reflection causing the same effects as a mirror. At night I shut the blinds to prevent this but a cage of any amt of glass you are SOL.

hi Whitey4311
I can see that you have bin keeping chams for about 4-5 years, and that is fine, just dont tell people not to use glass if you dont know if it works.
im an old cham keeper and only use glass or wood cages and there is NO problems.
no body told you to have glass on all 4 sides of the cage. I only have glass on the front. I know that in usa, many use mesh and im not saying you should'nt use that, because i dont live in usa and if it works for you, then its fine by me.
ALL the people i know here in EU use glass or wood(with glass on the front) and we dont have any problems. the humanity "could" be a problem if you have chams that need high humanity. My chams are not stressed!
I think many much of the things you wrote was good, and im sure matthias could use it, I just got angry when you told him not to use glass. there is no right way to keep chams, every one has a way they think works. If you read cham news you will see discussion about using glass or mesh.

http://chameleonnews.com/year2002/ju.../up_north.html
regards Niels
Start askign questions and we will fire away. I dont know everythign but have had chams for 4-5 yrs with no deaths yet. So I have learned some but awlays like to learn more and try the new technology out there. What I do know is GLASS is a no no. In front of a glass door is bad at night as well because its dark outside and the bright reptile lights make a bad reflection causing the same effects as a mirror. At night I shut the blinds to prevent this but a cage of any amt of glass you are SOL.

Here is any easy read that should get you started:

http://www.screameleons.com/portal/a...opDefault.aspx

ah, yes. your screameleons site and post i've read (although i forgot the bit you have on the ages). very helpful. and from what i've seen, highly reccomended as a place to purchase a cham.

and thanks to all for the advice thus far. but questions i haven't seen an answer to yet are: can you house a chameleon with something else not a chameleon? (like, assuming the habitats were compatible, could you put a gecko or some such in a large cham habitat? or would it freak out the cham too much? from what i've read, i would infer it wouldn't work, but haven't seen anything directly on point.) also, would the chams get bothered by the light in the room they're in (not their own basking & heat light) being on at odd hours? and is there a definitive book to buy prior to buying a cham?

i'm just trying to gather all the info i can before buying anything to make sure it would work out and to try to make the best setup i can prior to purchasing.

thanks everyone!

That big cage is in my living room and they do their own thing with out being bothered. They will actually start to respond to you coming to the cage thinking that they are getting fedd food. Mine see the cricket cup and start coming over to the spot that I place it in the cage for their food every morning. Its like clock work after a bit and they will learn. My Vield is in a wall less cage similar to that set up but in the open and he gets ready to fire his tongue every time you put your finger out. He got used to being hand feed silk worms.

I am strongly suggesting you dont use glass. Think logically for 3 seconds on why they puff up at their reflections and get ready to fight and tell me why you would want them to see their reflection all day long and cant get away from it. That will cause so much stree and problems that you dont want. Humidity or not it wont provide health benefits and if you choose to use it then it is for astetic purposes and you just want it to look good. I really wanted plexi glass doors on the front of my cage but knew better. Glass used on cages is often for babies and very young chams but not adults. Do your research and ask around you will find a lage majority who will support not using glass.
Mixing chams with other animals I dont think is a good idea. You never know what could happen. Trust me you will have plenty to look at in the cage. The chams are fascinating to watch for hours. Its like a fish aquarium.

Not knowing that glass "Works" and knowing what it causes are 2 different ideas here. We are not talking about somethign cople like UV lights and what is better. THSE TOPICS are like beating a dead horse around here but GLASS, lol. Pure logic will serve as the answer to that topic. Holding your cham in the mirrr causes them to go into self deffense mode which is stressful, surely you an coorelate that as beign the same when they see their reflection in glass doors.

my mon once told me "if you cant say any nice things, then dont say any thing"

so thats just what i want to do.

Hi matthias
i dont hope you will trust whitey4311 as you can read, he only trust him self and if i was wrong( and ALL my cham friends from Eu) why would we have no problems with our chams? maby it sound logical with the mirror thing, but i never had any problems.
yes they could get upper respitory infection if it was like a fish tank, but we use mesh on the top and one of the sides. Any way i hope you will trust me even though whitey4311 want me to sound like....i dont know.

I would never have any other reptiles in the same cages with my chams ( again,thats just what works best for me) i only keep me chams together when i breed them, but other then that i dont. even my babys have there own cages, because i think they grow much better in that way.
about the light out side the cages, hmm i have never had any problems with that. I have automatic light on all my cages and they "know" when the light will go of. i try to turn the light on and of the same time every day, to make it more natural.

what panther morphs are you thinking of buying?
regards Niels

thinking of buying a panther morph from the kammer's (kammerflage kreations). i really like the look of the antilobe's and tamatave's (like the fiery red) and my girlfriend likes the blue of the nosy be's and they have antilobe/nosy be/tamatave crosses for sale. so if they still have some left by the time i get its home set up, that would be my first choice. just looking for a pet, not to breed, so only care what we like the look of.

i would set the cage's interior light on a timer, but my only concern on lighting is that i don't live by a timer: sometimes asleep at midnight, sometimes not until four, and that the irregular timing of the overhead light from the living room may throw off any patterns/rhythms the cham may get into. or do they not pay attention to that or not need absolute dark in order to sleep.

i wasn't considering a glass cage. was asking if they should be put near a window, but i've read enough on ventilation and airflow to know to steer clear of glass aquariums. was looking at the kammer's cage setups, however. anyone know if those are any good?

sorry if my questions sound repetitive: i just want to make sure that it's going to work so i don't buy and put the chameleon into a bad situation.

thanks again!